Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

Hi Alexandre,

when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.

will send you an example of this case.

regards, Veronica

On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.

How many edges are intended to be defined?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:

...

if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.

First Rule: give feedback!

Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.

will send you an example of this case.

regards, Veronica

On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.

How many edges are intended to be defined?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:

...

if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.

First Rule: give feedback!

Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.

will send you an example of this case.

regards, Veronica

On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.

How many edges are intended to be defined?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:

> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. > > > First Rule: give feedback! > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Hi Alex,

I just tried in Pharo1.0, here the results:

BEFORE (version 452): 37.1% {1286ms} MOViewRenderer>>open:

AFTER (version 457): 48.6% {1287ms} MOViewRenderer>>open:

and the scroll action is not better. --> the difference between the two percent number is due to one full GC (not interesting).

Maybe the three times difference is with a previous version than 452.

So, for me, no difference, sorry.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 8, 2010, at 14:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

> Hi Alexandre, > > when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. > > will send you an example of this case. > > regards, > Veronica > > > On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >> >> How many edges are intended to be defined? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>> >>> >>> First Rule: give feedback! >>> >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch

Hi Alexandre,

I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D

It worked perfectly on 4 of 5 visualizations (generated with the same data). The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.

Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

> Hi Alexandre, > > when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. > > will send you an example of this case. > > regards, > Veronica > > > On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >> >> How many edges are intended to be defined? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>> >>> >>> First Rule: give feedback! >>> >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D

This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.

The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.

Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.

KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]

www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html

Cheers, Alexandre

Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

> Hi, > > This is the same for me. > With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. > > I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: > >> Hi Alexandre, >> >> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >> >> will send you an example of this case. >> >> regards, >> Veronica >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>> >>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>> >>>> >>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

Hi Alex,

I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 Jean Remi shows a case study : It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...

But for sure, it is not attractive.

Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?

The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.

Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).

Just my reflexion

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D

This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.

...

The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.

Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.

KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]

www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html

Cheers, Alexandre

...

Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

> I can't too. > The script make a while and crash the image. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >> >> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is the same for me. >>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>> >>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>> >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>> >>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>> >>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>> >>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Yes, we will do this. Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.

Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Alex,

I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 Jean Remi shows a case study : It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...

But for sure, it is not attractive.

Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?

The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.

Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).

Just my reflexion

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D

This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.

...

The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.

Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.

KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]

www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html

Cheers, Alexandre

...

Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

> Hi Alexandre, > > Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... > Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? > > regards, > Veronica > > On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> I can't too. >>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>> >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>> >>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>> >>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>> >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>> >>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, >>>>>> Veronica >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

On 9 juin 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

Blueprints have their own queries, which are not currently supported by cook (would be interesting to see if new cook supports them). And probably, they are not in cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

Yes, we will do this. Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.

Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Alex,

I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 Jean Remi shows a case study : It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...

But for sure, it is not attractive.

Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?

The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.

Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).

Just my reflexion

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D

This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.

> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.

Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.

KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]

www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html

Cheers, Alexandre

> > Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. > > Regards, > Veronica > > > On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >> >> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >> Does it solve your problem? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >> >>> Hi Alexandre, >>> >>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>> >>> regards, >>> Veronica >>> >>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>> >>>>> I can't too. >>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>> >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- Simon

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

Yes, we will do this. Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.

Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Alex,

I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 Jean Remi shows a case study : It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...

But for sure, it is not attractive.

Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?

The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.

Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).

Just my reflexion

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D > > This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. > You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. > >> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. > > Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. > > KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] > > www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html > > Cheers, > Alexandre > >> >> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >> >> Regards, >> Veronica >> >> >> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>> >>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>> Does it solve your problem? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>> >>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

Yes, we will do this. Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.

Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Hi Alex, >> >> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >> Jean Remi shows a case study : >> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. >> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >> >> But for sure, it is not attractive. >> >> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >> >> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. >> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this. >> >> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >> >> Just my reflexion >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D >>> >>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. >>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>> >>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>> >>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. >>> >>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>> >>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> >>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>> >>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>> >>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, >>>>>> Veronica >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

enableCache should always be on. When exactly don't we want that? :)

If you want to update the visualization you should redo it via another means.

Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

I can add something like: MOShape>>enableCache MOShape>>disableCache

In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

>> Yes, we will do this. >> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which >> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >> >> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? > > Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide > when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a > refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. > I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really > computed just once. > > Alexandre > >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you >>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the >>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is >>>> clearly difficult to scroll. >>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem >>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>> >>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>> >>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>> scripting. >>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with >>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is >>>> useful ? >>>> >>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>> language. >>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>>> can do this. >>>> >>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>> >>>> Just my reflexion >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>>> >>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>>> with the zOrder. >>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>> >>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>> >>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can >>>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the >>>>> problem comes from. >>>>> >>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>> >>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let >>>>>> you know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Veronica >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>>> and edges. >>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present >>>>>>>> is really a problem... >>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell >>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines >>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But >>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"It's not how it is, it is how we see it."

On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

enableCache should always be on. When exactly don't we want that? :)

When used with Moose yes. But you may want to see changes in a view when you change your model.

but then you invalidate the cache of the associated nodes and edges.

...

If you want to update the visualization you should redo it via another means.

Yes. I am working on this right now. It shouldn't be too hard

Alexandre

...

On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

I can add something like: MOShape>>enableCache MOShape>>disableCache

In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

> Hi Jannik, > > Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails. > > If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Ok, I understand. >> >> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. >> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >> >> You can fing t image here: >> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>>> >>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>> >>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>> >>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. >>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. >>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing should have the right to be different." > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"It's not how it is, it is how we see it."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

+1 On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:44 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi,

When you want to invalidate a presentation, you should use explicit means. For example, the model should announce the change, and the presentation should know what to do with that. This is what we do in Glamour and it works well. Like this, the presentation can create the data structure it wants and use that until an update is wanted.

This behavior should be the default of Mondrian.

Cheers, Doru

On 10 Jun 2010, at 07:36, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

...

On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

enableCache should always be on. When exactly don't we want that? :)

When used with Moose yes. But you may want to see changes in a view when you change your model.

but then you invalidate the cache of the associated nodes and edges.

...

...

If you want to update the visualization you should redo it via another means.

Yes. I am working on this right now. It shouldn't be too hard

Alexandre

...

On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

I can add something like: MOShape>>enableCache MOShape>>disableCache

In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

> Hi Jannik, > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. >> So, what is done with bluprint: >> >> Load Moose in Moose, >> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. >> It is easier like that :) >> >> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. >> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? >> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ? > > I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi Jannik, >>> >>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails. >>> >>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, I understand. >>>> >>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. >>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >>>> >>>> You can fing t image here: >>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>>>> >>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once. >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. >>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. >>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one." > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"It's not how it is, it is how we see it."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Hi,

yes but there is something that I don't understand: why each node and edges does not keep these state ? width and height are cool to keep, but this is the same problem for color, border.... Each of them could have computation beside; so the problem is in general.

Maybe my vision is naive but if each node and edge keep its state, we do not need a cache or multiple computations.

This is the correct point of view. The invalidation of the visualization should be controlled by the developer.

Doru

There is something not clear for me :)

On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:19 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

I can add something like: MOShape>>enableCache MOShape>>disableCache

In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

> Ok, I understand. > > So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the > script, or use a moose cache. > I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. > > You can fing t image here: > http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip > > Cheers, > Jannik > > > On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >>> Yes, we will do this. >>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which >>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>> >>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >> >> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide >> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a >> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really >> computed just once. >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you >>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the >>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it >>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this >>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>> >>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>> >>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>>> scripting. >>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable >>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is >>>>> useful ? >>>>> >>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>>> language. >>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>>>> can do this. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>> >>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>> >>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>>>> with the zOrder. >>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You >>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where >>>>>> the problem comes from. >>>>>> >>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>> >>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will >>>>>>> let you know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>>>> and edges. >>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present >>>>>>>>> is really a problem... >>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell >>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines >>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"It's not how it is, it is how we see it."

Hi Doru, what I want to say is to store the state in the shape, not the value of metrics. For example, if the number 1 is represented by #red and 2 by #blue, the model could store 1 or 2, but not necessary. But Mondrian should store #red or #blue.

With this, we do not need a cache in the model which is not needed and maybe complicated to do in a non-Moose model.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 23:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

Just one more thing.

The only trick to cache the shapes for each element, is that we have to store the values in the element, not in the shape. That is because the shape is shared between multiple elements.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 23:05, Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi,

...

yes but there is something that I don't understand: why each node and edges does not keep these state ? width and height are cool to keep, but this is the same problem for color, border.... Each of them could have computation beside; so the problem is in general.

Maybe my vision is naive but if each node and edge keep its state, we do not need a cache or multiple computations.

This is the correct point of view. The invalidation of the visualization should be controlled by the developer.

Doru

...

There is something not clear for me :)

On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:19 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

I can add something like: MOShape>>enableCache MOShape>>disableCache

In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

> Hi all, > > Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. > So, what is done with bluprint: > > Load Moose in Moose, > Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. > It is easier like that :) > > But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. > Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? > If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

> Cheers, > Jannik > > On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi Jannik, >> >> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails. >> >> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Ok, I understand. >>> >>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. >>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >>> >>> You can fing t image here: >>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jannik >>> >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>>>> >>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>>> >>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. >>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. >>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"It's not how it is, it is how we see it."

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

Right, Mondrian should be smart with caching, but before we say that is the problem, we first need to see if the rendering is Ok :)

Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:09, Laval Jannik wrote:

Hi Doru,

Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.

So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi all,

Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.

Cheers, Doru

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

> Yes, we will do this. > Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which > is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. > > Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

> > Cheers, > Jannik > > On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce >> a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, >> starting from a Moose one-click image? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is >>> clearly difficult to scroll. >>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem >>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>> >>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>> >>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with >>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >>> >>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>> generate frequently visualization. >>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>> language. >>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>> can do this. >>> >>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>> >>> Just my reflexion >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>> >>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>> with the zOrder. >>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>> >>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>> >>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can >>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the >>>> problem comes from. >>>> >>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>> >>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let >>>>> you know. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Veronica >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>> and edges. >>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is >>>>>>> really a problem... >>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. >>>>>>>> I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is >>>>>>>> currently working on it). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me >>>>>>>>>> whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did >>>>>>>>>> not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I >>>>>>>>>>> am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas >>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a >>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"When people care, great things can happen."

Yes, I saw that too, I open an issue (413).

I do not know how Jean-Remi generate his visualization. It seems that a code has not been saved or a merge not done, we investigate that.

On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:10 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

So, what is done with bluprint:

Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :)

How can I generate the outgoing blueprint. I do not see the option in the Moose 4.0 one-click image (cf screenshot). <Screen shot 2010-06-09 at 16.06.53.png>

...

But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?

It depends what you want to achieve actually. So far, shape dimensions are mapped to some metrics using width: and height:. Mondrian do not cache them. It could, but one would expect that the represented model cache them. If I introduce a cache mechanism, when should I invalidate the cache? This is not clear to me...

...

If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

It has been compatible so far. Why would it change?

Alexandre

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi Jannik,

Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.

If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.

Cheers, Doru

On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Ok, I understand.

So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.

You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

...

Yes, we will do this. Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.

Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?

Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.

Alexandre

...

Cheers, Jannik

On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Hi Alex, >> >> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >> Jean Remi shows a case study : >> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll. >> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >> >> But for sure, it is not attractive. >> >> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >> >> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization. >> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this. >> >> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >> >> Just my reflexion >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D >>> >>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder. >>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>> >>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>> >>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from. >>> >>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>> >>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> >>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>> >>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>> >>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, >>>>>> Veronica >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--- Jannik Laval

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect. - the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated - other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

Hi,

This is the same for me. With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.

I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

> Hi Alexandre, > > when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. > > will send you an example of this case. > > regards, > Veronica > > > On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >> >> How many edges are intended to be defined? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>> >>> >>> First Rule: give feedback! >>> >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Jannik, Veronica,

I implemented the metric cache mechanism we discussed on the mailing list. Not all tests are yellow. Before I work on the tests, I would like to make sure we are on the right track. Would you mind to try it and say to me whether you see some speedup?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

> Hi, > > This is the same for me. > With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. > > I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: > >> Hi Alexandre, >> >> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >> >> will send you an example of this case. >> >> regards, >> Veronica >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>> >>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>> >>>> >>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

I changed the name to Mondrian-UNSTABLE-Alexandre_Bergel.458

Alexandre

On 10 Jun 2010, at 11:38, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

where is that change? Mondrian has not new versions!!!

On 10 Jun 2010, at 16:12, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, Veronica,

I implemented the metric cache mechanism we discussed on the mailing list. Not all tests are yellow. Before I work on the tests, I would like to make sure we are on the right track. Would you mind to try it and say to me whether you see some speedup?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

> I can't too. > The script make a while and crash the image. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >> >> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is the same for me. >>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>> >>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>> >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>> >>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>> >>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>> >>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Alexandre,

I tried... the problem when moving is still present, I guess you couldn't see what is happening even when moving other windows over the visualization the refreshing starts.

Veronica

On 10 Jun 2010, at 18:26, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

I changed the name to Mondrian-UNSTABLE-Alexandre_Bergel.458

Alexandre

On 10 Jun 2010, at 11:38, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

where is that change? Mondrian has not new versions!!!

On 10 Jun 2010, at 16:12, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, Veronica,

I implemented the metric cache mechanism we discussed on the mailing list. Not all tests are yellow. Before I work on the tests, I would like to make sure we are on the right track. Would you mind to try it and say to me whether you see some speedup?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). > > Alexandre > > > On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> I can't too. >> The script make a while and crash the image. >> >> Jannik >> >> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>> >>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> This is the same for me. >>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>> >>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>> >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>> >>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>> >>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> Veronica >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>> >>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Hi Doru,

Yes, but they are not heavy at all... why is refreshing even when other windows get move? don't think it has to be with the edges I had not this before only after the last version of Mondrian

Veronica

Ps. tried to send a file but was too big (will send it directly to you and Alex)

On 10 Jun 2010, at 20:20, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Veronica,

Do you have computation defined on the edges?

Cheers, Doru

On 10 Jun 2010, at 20:10, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Alexandre,

I tried... the problem when moving is still present, I guess you couldn't see what is happening even when moving other windows over the visualization the refreshing starts.

Veronica

On 10 Jun 2010, at 18:26, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

I changed the name to Mondrian-UNSTABLE-Alexandre_Bergel.458

Alexandre

On 10 Jun 2010, at 11:38, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

where is that change? Mondrian has not new versions!!!

On 10 Jun 2010, at 16:12, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, Veronica,

I implemented the metric cache mechanism we discussed on the mailing list. Not all tests are yellow. Before I work on the tests, I would like to make sure we are on the right track. Would you mind to try it and say to me whether you see some speedup?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), > > The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. > Does it solve your problem? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: > >> Hi Alexandre, >> >> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... >> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >> >> regards, >> Veronica >> >> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it). >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> I can't too. >>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>> >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>> >>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>> >>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Veronica & Jannik,

Please update Mondrian and let me know: Mondrian-UNSTABLE-Alexandre_Bergel.460

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

...

I can't too. The script make a while and crash the image.

Jannik

On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?

I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:

> Hi, > > This is the same for me. > With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. > > I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: > >> Hi Alexandre, >> >> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >> >> will send you an example of this case. >> >> regards, >> Veronica >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>> >>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>> >>>> >>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Jannik Laval

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Hum... I will dive into it this weekend. I have no idea where the problem is from. If you can reproduce the problem just with MOEasel, without using Torch, this would help me.

Cheers, Alexandre

On 11 Jun 2010, at 05:17, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

Hi Alex,

The problem is still present, no difference with this new version...

Veronica

On 11 Jun 2010, at 00:26, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Veronica & Jannik,

Please update Mondrian and let me know: Mondrian-UNSTABLE-Alexandre_Bergel.460

Cheers, Alexandre

On 9 Jun 2010, at 06:56, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

I did not noticed that yesterday, but today i have a problem all the time.

Moving the window with the visualization causes a very annoying effect.

• the first time you move, all the windows that are opened on the image get refreshed and they flick. This also happens sometimes when the visualization is being generated
• other movements cause the same effect only over the window containing the visualization

I never had that problem before, and i just verified it only happens with the last version (457)

Regards, Veronica

On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Hi Veronica (and Jannik),

The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. Does it solve your problem?

Cheers, Alexandre

On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:

...

Hi Alexandre,

Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem... Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?

regards, Veronica

On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).

Alexandre

On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:

> I can't too. > The script make a while and crash the image. > > Jannik > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ? >> >> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is the same for me. >>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>> >>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>> >>> Jannik >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>> >>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>> >>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Veronica >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>> >>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---

Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev