Hi Doru,
Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
Now, the problem is more general:
I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during
rendering, which slow down the visualization.
So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not
each work we do.
Cheers,
Jannik
On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Jannik,
On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
> So, what is done with bluprint:
>
> Load Moose in Moose,
> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
> It is easier like that :)
>
> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do
?
I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the
problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast
the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
Cheers,
Doru
> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>
>> Hi Jannik,
>>
>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>
>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that
explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be
that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation
too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>
>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a
moose cache.
>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>
>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>
http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is
computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>
>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining
shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you
scroll.
>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just
once.
>>>>
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for
optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for
the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem,
starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is
clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem
comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by
scripting.
>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with
modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we
generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting
language.
>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can
do this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a
lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced
with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I
couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same
problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You
can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here"
]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that
visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version
of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas
Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are
present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this
problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that
noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on
it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the
image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre
Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a
DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or
not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it
since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval
Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really
difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports
of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 ,
Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations
have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1
min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing
this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example
of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09,
Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than
before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are
intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at
13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not
tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give
feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing
list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel
http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel
http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel
http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>
>>
>>
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>
> ---
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>
>
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