[Moose-dev] Re: can you say to alex that edges are slow?

Ok, I understand. So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache. I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. You can fing t image here: http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip Cheers, Jannik On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> Yes, we will do this. >> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is >> computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >> >> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? > > Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when > defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is > done. Which occurs when you scroll. > I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed > just once. > > Alexandre > >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you >>> use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a >>> complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting >>> from a Moose one-click image? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is >>>> clearly difficult to scroll. >>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem >>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>> >>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>> >>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting. >>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with >>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ? >>>> >>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate >>>> frequently visualization. >>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language. >>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do >>>> this. >>>> >>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>> >>>> Just my reflexion >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>>> >>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with >>>>> the zOrder. >>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>> >>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't >>>>>> move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and >>>>>> I had the same problem. >>>>> >>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use >>>>> Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem >>>>> comes from. >>>>> >>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>> >>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you >>>>>> know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Veronica >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian >>>>>>> is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges. >>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is >>>>>>>> really a problem... >>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I >>>>>>>>> hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently >>>>>>>>> working on it). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version >>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it >>>>>>>>>>> is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not >>>>>>>>>>> exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am >>>>>>>>>>>> not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas >>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is >>>>>>>>>>>>> slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other >>>>>>>>>>>>> windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev --- Jannik Laval _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev