Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

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Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

21 Jan 2015 21 Jan '15

1:14 a.m.

Hi all, I'm advancing at making my interactive notebook for open/garage/citizen research & science in Moose called Grafoscopio[0]. This are baby steps towards an alternate approach to what Andrei, Jan and Doru are trying [1][2] for documentation, that begins with a document tree inside the image and "projects" the files (markdown by traversing the tagged tree and then latex and html, via pandoc and pdf via pdftex/luatex). In this way you can have a complete interactive document (book size) inside the image, stored/shared/versioned in the lightweight STON with arbitrary levels of deepness and only think about files when you are exporting to pdf or intermediate formats. Also I think that this solution is easier to run on Windows that Pillar Book Skeleton. [0] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio [1] http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/writing-pillar-books-with-the-gtinspe… [2] http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspe… Markdown (pandoc's variant) express only the surface of the writing, while deeper structure is stored in the image and STON. I call this the "iceberg metaphor" for writing and data visualization, so instead of WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) of common word processors you have WYSIOTSOWYH (What You See Is Only The Surface Of What You Have) which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. New metaphors for writing are needed if we want to bootstrap more open/inclusive ways to do science and research, coming not only from academia but also from non canonical places like citizens and garages, maker/hacker spaces. Here is a small video of how interface looks today, which allow me to introduce some practical questions on how to deliver this vision: https://archive.org/details/grafoscopio-tags-alpha1.mp4 As you can see, I can tag a node as code (código) and the node view and behaviour gets updated after revisiting the node, providing auto-completion and syntax highlighting, so: 1. There is any way to get the node view/behaviour updated instantly without the need to revisit the node? 2. When I press the accept icon I don't get the code executed, even if I selected all previously. There is any way to get the code executed? 3. My idea in the future is to make the node view of the tree at the right side a complete playground instead of a workspace, with their emergent lateral panels when an object is selected. There is any way to embed a playground in a browser pane or any plan to implement this feature? 4. At the very end of the video you see the trace of an error that is raised when I select and empty part of the tree. This is the most annoying behaviour and can create lost of information if you have write a node and not saved the tree just before clicking and empty tree space. I imagine that this can be solved with a "when:" message that can be used to tell the browser only to show something in the right if there is something selected at the left. I will try to debug this, but any pointer in the right direction would be appreciated. It has been a pleasure to work with Pharo and Moose for this project. Is a very empowering platform to express ideas about how interactive documentation could be done, among other things and the community is welcoming and awesome! Thanks, Offray ps: attached is the ston file for the document used in the video).

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Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

21 Jan 21 Jan

5:07 a.m.

A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

...

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray

Alexandre Bergel

2:40 p.m.

Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

...

On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

10:04 p.m.

Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to implement the next step. Cheers, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:

...

On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

22 Jan 22 Jan

6:56 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Hi, At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre). I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular. Am I making something wrong or is just something else? Thanks, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

...

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Tudor Girba

9:54 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

...

<offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: which is what happens with most of the time and the common word > processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. > I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Alexandre Bergel

10:31 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

...

On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi, Good question. A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest. If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply. A longer question will take longer to reply. A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer. Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer. So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions? Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net> wrote: Hi, At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre). I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular. Am I making something wrong or is just something else? Thanks, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to implement the next step. Cheers, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió: Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Andrei Chis

10:33 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

+1 On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote:

...

On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi, Good question. A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup

will be answered the fastest.

If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply. A longer question will take longer to reply. A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take

even longer.

Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer. So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast.

Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?

Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <

offray(a)riseup.net> wrote:

Hi, At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself

now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).

I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if

where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.

Am I making something wrong or is just something else? Thanks, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to implement the next step. Cheers, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió: Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Aliaksei Syrel

10:41 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

+1 Cheers, Alex On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:33 PM, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

+1 On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote:

On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi, Good question. A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup

will be answered the fastest.

If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply. A longer question will take longer to reply. A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take

even longer.

Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer. So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast.

Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?

Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <

offray(a)riseup.net> wrote:

Hi, At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself

now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).

I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if

where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

31 Jan 31 Jan

11:23 p.m.

New subject: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Hi, Well seems that striking the proper balance between context for the question and direct questions is a key issue between getting a quick answer, or none at all, so I will try another approach. A long blog post for the ones who want the details of my project at [1] and quick technical questions that can refer to that context. [1] Grafoscopio: Iceberg metaphor for writing and data visualization: http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-ini… I will ask the questions in another thread. Thanks and cheers, Offray El 22/01/15 a las 15:54, Tudor Girba escribió:

...

Hi, Good question. A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest. If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply. A longer question will take longer to reply. A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer. Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer. So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions? Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: Hi, At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre). I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular. Am I making something wrong or is just something else? Thanks, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to implement the next step. Cheers, Offray El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió: Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~__:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.__;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray(a)riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net> <mailto:offray@riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>>> wrote: A typo, when I said El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió: which is what happens with most of the time and the common word processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express. :-) Cheers, Offray _________________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>__> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/__mailman/listinfo/moose-dev <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev> _________________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/__mailman/listinfo/moose-dev <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev> _________________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/__mailman/listinfo/moose-dev <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev> _________________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/__mailman/listinfo/moose-dev <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev> -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

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Alexandre Bergel
Aliaksei Syrel
Andrei Chis
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Tudor Girba