why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

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Issue 1037 in moose-technology:...

Stéphane Ducasse

26 Jun 2014 26 Jun '14

8:31 a.m.

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Tudor Girba

26 Jun 26 Jun

10:52 a.m.

New subject: why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

Hi Stef, I have tried before and I will continue to try to work with people and treat this problem in an engineering way. It seems to me that you find the two screenshots self evident. I do not. First, you provided the white theme screenshot for a window that is passive, not active. Then, do you have problems identifying the parts in the window? Doru . On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr

...

wrote:

...

Hi Why this broken theme is still the default theme? Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and Pharo? Seriously? So I’m waiting for an answer and based on this answer I will take actions because this is too long now that the system is on his knees from that perspective. Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Yuriy Tymchuk

11:27 a.m.

On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

...

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top.

...

Doru . On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: Hi Why this broken theme is still the default theme? Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and Pharo? Seriously? So I’m waiting for an answer and based on this answer I will take actions because this is too long now that the system is on his knees from that perspective. Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Tudor Girba

11:38 a.m.

New subject: why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one. [image: Inline image 1] Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:

...

On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi Stef, I have tried before and I will continue to try to work with people and treat this problem in an engineering way. It seems to me that you find the two screenshots self evident. I do not. First, you provided the white theme screenshot for a window that is passive, not active. Then, do you have problems identifying the parts in the window? List separators are ending in a strange way at the top. Doru . On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote:

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Yuriy Tymchuk

11:43 a.m.

On 26 Jun 2014, at 11:38, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

...

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

Yes, but passive window looks broken. Also this blue gradient things at drop down lists are strange and buttons at scrollbar that have no indicator that they are scroll buttons. Etc… Uko

...

<active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top.

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

stepharo

12:07 p.m.

...

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

Yes, but passive window looks broken. Also this blue gradient things at drop down lists are strange and buttons at scrollbar that have no indicator that they are scroll buttons. Etc…

obviously I'm not the only one to see that. In the rmod team nobody working for real with moose is using the white theme since months. Stef

Alexandre Bergel

3:39 p.m.

I have never feel that not having a scrollbar indicator is a real problem. On my iphone, I even do not know whether something is scrollable or not. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:43 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:

...

On 26 Jun 2014, at 11:38, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

Yes, but passive window looks broken. Also this blue gradient things at drop down lists are strange and buttons at scrollbar that have no indicator that they are scroll buttons. Etc… Uko

<active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top.

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

stepharo

12:06 p.m.

this one sucks too. I do not see combo box, I do not see scrollbar arrows. Stef On 26/6/14 11:38, Tudor Girba wrote:

...

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one. Inline image 1 Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com <mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>> wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top.

Doru . On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: Hi Why this broken theme is still the default theme? Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and Pharo? Seriously? So I'm waiting for an answer and based on this answer I will take actions because this is too long now that the system is on his knees from that perspective. Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Johan Fabry

2:38 p.m.

New subject: why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

Hi all, here are my two cents on what can be improved given the screenshot: - scrollbars up/down buttons don’t have the arrows. There is no way to distinguish between the slider and the button. See the list of classes for an example. This is really annoying. - buttons don’t have borders that outline them. In my opinion, a convention that has been used since more than 20 years should not be broken just like that. - drop down menus don’t have an icon in their drop down box. - the entire group of ‘groups, hierarchy, class side, comments’ is ugly with all the spurious white lines - the white border on the left and right of the window is annoying. It should be or a thicker gray window border, or the widgets should go out to the end. To be positive: the border around the drop down menus makes them much better than before. On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:38 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

...

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one. <active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top.

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Tudor Girba

2:55 p.m.

New subject: why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

Hi, Thanks for the concrete points. I will follow up with another email. Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:

...

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was

depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

<active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>

wrote:

On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > I have tried before and I will continue to try to work with people and

treat this problem in an engineering way.

> > It seems to me that you find the two screenshots self evident. I do not. > > First, you provided the white theme screenshot for a window that is

passive, not active.

Then, do you have problems identifying the parts in the window?

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top. > > Doru > . > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <

stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote:

> Hi > > Why this broken theme is still the default theme? > Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and Pharo?

Seriously?

> So I’m waiting for an answer and based on this answer I will take

actions because this is too long now that the system

is on his knees from that perspective. Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

[GMAIL] Aliaksei Syrel

3:34 p.m.

New subject: why the white theme is still the default theme in Moose?

...

Hi, Thanks for the concrete points. I will follow up with another email. Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like it was

depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

<active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>

wrote:

On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > I have tried before and I will continue to try to work with people and

treat this problem in an engineering way.

> > It seems to me that you find the two screenshots self evident. I do

not.

> > First, you provided the white theme screenshot for a window that is

passive, not active.

Then, do you have problems identifying the parts in the window?

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top. > > Doru > . > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <

stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote:

> Hi > > Why this broken theme is still the default theme? > Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and Pharo?

Seriously?

> So I’m waiting for an answer and based on this answer I will take

actions because this is too long now that the system

stepharo

4:27 p.m.

Hi syrel I know I wrote some first versions of moose long time ago and I often work in the dark on the boring things like making sure that the configurations work. You know the stuff that nobody get fame to do. Now when the user interface systematically alienates the user, it gets really annoying. Stef

...

Hi all, I just want to remind, that Moose is not about colors, icons and arrows - it's about data, visualization and research. It's open source and everyone can improve it. Not all programmers can draw amazing Apple/Windows/Ubuntu/whatever like interface parts. Cheers, Alex On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: Hi, Thanks for the concrete points. I will follow up with another email. Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl <mailto:jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl>> wrote: Hi all, here are my two cents on what can be improved given the screenshot: - scrollbars up/down buttons don't have the arrows. There is no way to distinguish between the slider and the button. See the list of classes for an example. This is really annoying. - buttons don't have borders that outline them. In my opinion, a convention that has been used since more than 20 years should not be broken just like that. - drop down menus don't have an icon in their drop down box. - the entire group of 'groups, hierarchy, class side, comments' is ugly with all the spurious white lines - the white border on the left and right of the window is annoying. It should be or a thicker gray window border, or the widgets should go out to the end. To be positive: the border around the drop down menus makes them much better than before. On Jun 26, 2014, at 5:38 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:

Hi, Thanks. This is something concrete. Now, please look at an active window, not a passive one like

it was depicted in the screenshot from Stef. See the attached one.

<active-window-whitetheme.png> Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk

<yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com <mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>> wrote:

On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:52, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com

<mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:

> Hi Stef, > > I have tried before and I will continue to try to work with

people and treat this problem in an engineering way.

> > It seems to me that you find the two screenshots self

evident. I do not.

> > First, you provided the white theme screenshot for a window

that is passive, not active.

Then, do you have problems identifying the parts in the window?

List separators are ending in a strange way at the top. > > Doru > . > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Stéphane Ducasse

<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote:

> Hi > > Why this broken theme is still the default theme? > Do we think that this is a good promotion for Moose and

Pharo? Seriously?

> So I'm waiting for an answer and based on this answer I

will take actions because this is too long now that the system

is on his knees from that perspective. Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry <http://pleiad.cl/%7Ejfabry> PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

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[GMAIL] Aliaksei Syrel
Alexandre Bergel
Johan Fabry
stepharo
Stéphane Ducasse
Tudor Girba
Yuriy Tymchuk