24 May
2011
24 May
'11
3:23 p.m.
Hi
why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
Stef
24 May
24 May
3:32 p.m.
Hi Stef,
I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more specific?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi
why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
3:48 p.m.
I actually agree with steph.
The two menus might seem like an added facility but I believe they are confusing,
e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
(probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
I would also suggest a more traditional menubar above the models output instead of the
buttons that are on the top right of the window.
For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
just my 2c
nicolas
----- Mail original -----
De: "Tudor Girba"
<tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
Hi Stef,
I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
specific?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi
why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
4:01 p.m.
Hi,
Ok, I think I understand where the problem comes from.
On 24 May 2011, at 15:48, Nicolas Anquetil wrote:
I actually agree with steph.
I do not.
The two menus might seem like an added facility but I
believe they are confusing,
e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
(probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something it
concerns that something
http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity
So, the two are not the same. The global one will create a model, while the contextual one
will populate the current model.
Now, I do agree that some of the menu items should be eliminated, and I think that the
import from the model menu is one candidate.
I would also suggest a more traditional menubar above
the models output instead of the buttons that are on the top right of the window.
For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions for
a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether this is
in a top window or embedded in some pane.
just my 2c
Thanks :)
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
----- Mail original -----
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both
matter."
De: "Tudor Girba"
<tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
Hi Stef,
I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
specific?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Hi
why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
9:26 p.m.
come on doru you can have a design in mind if user has to think all the time this means
that the design does not work.
"Ok I should not use the contextual menu for this task" repeat after me and
breath.....
And now I have to learn by heart
It is not. When I want to interact with a model I have to click somewhere on a bar while
the list is in another place
In fact this is remote distributed object-orientation.
Well we can find all kind of good reasons. But at the end on mac there is a plus and minus
**Related to the list** not on the other side of the pane.
So adding and removing a model should not be at the other end of the pane.
Stef
I actually
agree with steph.
I do not.
The two menus might seem like an added facility
but I believe they are confusing,
e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
(probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something it
concerns that something
http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity So, the two are not the same. The global one will
create a model, while the contextual one will populate the current model.
yeah sure. Now I have to always remember ok I should not use the contextual menu.
Now, I do agree that some of the menu items should be
eliminated, and I think that the import from the model menu is one candidate.
I do not even understand what you are saying on this one.
I would also
suggest a more traditional menubar above the models output instead of the buttons that are
on the top right of the window.
For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions for
a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether this is
in a top window or embedded in some pane. just my 2c
Thanks :)
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
----- Mail original -----
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both
matter."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev De: "Tudor Girba"
<tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
Hi Stef,
I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
specific?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Hi
why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
10:14 p.m.
Stef,
I understand that you are frustrated by using this tool perhaps for the first time, but
this kind of dialogue is simply not useful. Please let's transform it into something
positive.
The reason why those buttons are on the top-right is that they affect the entire browser
in my view. One thing I can tell you though is that when an interface is uniform and you
know what that is, you will know where to look.
Now, let's imagine that all tools would use exactly the same interface which actually
makes sense once you give the principle a try. All of a sudden it becomes obvious.
Regarding +/- on a Mac, I had to go ask someone how to remove an account on Mac exactly
because I did not manage to find the -. I am not saying that it does not make sense to
have it there, but I was used to the Mac actions to be on top of my selection, not below
it. Things are never black and white. That is why it is useful to talk principles, not
happenings.
Regarding the contextual task, what exactly is the problem?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 21:26, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
come on doru you can have a design in mind if user has
to think all the time this means that the design does not work.
"Ok I should not use the contextual menu for this task" repeat after me and
breath.....
And now I have to learn by heart
It is not. When I want to interact with a model I have to click somewhere on a bar while
the list is in another place
In fact this is remote distributed object-orientation.
Well we can find all kind of good reasons. But at the end on mac there is a plus and
minus **Related to the list** not on the other side of the pane.
So adding and removing a model should not be at the other end of the pane.
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
I
actually agree with steph.
I do not.
The two menus might seem like an added facility
but I believe they are confusing,
e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
(probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something it
concerns that something
http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity So, the two are not the same. The global one will
create a model, while the contextual one will populate the current model.
yeah sure. Now I have to always remember ok I should not use the contextual menu.
Now, I do agree that some of the menu items
should be eliminated, and I think that the import from the model menu is one candidate.
I do not even understand what you are saying on this one.
I would
also suggest a more traditional menubar above the models output instead of the buttons
that are on the top right of the window.
For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions for
a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether this is
in a top window or embedded in some pane. just my 2c
Thanks :)
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
----- Mail original -----
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both
matter."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev De: "Tudor Girba"
<tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
Hi Stef,
I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
specific?
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> Hi
>
> why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
> Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
>
> Stef
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
10:47 p.m.
Stef,
I understand that you are frustrated by using this tool perhaps for the first time, but
this kind of dialogue is simply not useful. Please let's transform it into something
positive.
i know I'm trying.
The reason why those buttons are on the top-right is that they affect the entire browser
in my view. One thing I can tell you though is that when an interface is uniform and you
know what that is, you will know where to look.
Now, let's imagine that all tools would use exactly the same interface which actually
makes sense once you give the principle a try. All of a sudden it becomes obvious.
Regarding +/- on a Mac, I had to go ask someone how to remove an account on Mac exactly
because I did not manage to find the -. I am not saying that it does not make sense to
have it there, but I was used to the Mac actions to be on top of my selection, not below
it. Things are never black and white. That is why it is useful to talk principles, not
happenings.
Regarding the contextual task, what exactly is the problem?
that import is related to models and the first thing I get is an empty list and this is
where I start not to the browser of models that I have no clue what it is.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 21:26, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
come on doru you can have a design in mind if
user has to think all the time this means that the design does not work.
"Ok I should not use the contextual menu for this task" repeat after me and
breath.....
And now I have to learn by heart
It is not. When I want to interact with a model I have to click somewhere on a bar while
the list is in another place
In fact this is remote distributed object-orientation.
Well we can find all kind of good reasons. But at the end on mac there is a plus and
minus **Related to the list** not on the other side of the pane.
So adding and removing a model should not be at the other end of the pane.
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev I
actually agree with steph.
I do not.
The two menus might seem like an added facility
but I believe they are confusing,
e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
(probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something it
concerns that something
http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity So, the two are not the same. The global one will
create a model, while the contextual one will populate the current model.
yeah sure. Now I have to always remember ok I should not use the contextual menu.
Now, I do agree that some of the menu items
should be eliminated, and I think that the import from the model menu is one candidate.
I do not even understand what you are saying on this one.
I would
also suggest a more traditional menubar above the models output instead of the buttons
that are on the top right of the window.
For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions for
a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether this is
in a top window or embedded in some pane. just my 2c
Thanks :)
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
----- Mail original -----
> De: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
> À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
> Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
> Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
> Hi Stef,
>
> I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
> specific?
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
> On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
>> Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
>>
>> Stef
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both
matter."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
11:05 p.m.
On 24 May 2011, at 22:47, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Perhaps something is not quite clear. In MoosePanel the contextual menu should work on
data only. Not on panels. If you do not see data, you should not be able to use the
contextual menu.
But, let me ask you again. Now that you know that the toolbar for the current
browser/presentation is on the top right. Do you still have the problem of looking for it
and knowing what it relates to?
Cheers,
Doru
Stef,
I understand that you are frustrated by using this tool perhaps for the first time, but
this kind of dialogue is simply not useful. Please let's transform it into something
positive.
i know I'm trying.
The reason why those buttons are on the top-right is that they affect the entire browser
in my view. One thing I can tell you though is that when an interface is uniform and you
know what that is, you will know where to look.
Now, let's imagine that all tools would use exactly the same interface which actually
makes sense once you give the principle a try. All of a sudden it becomes obvious.
Regarding +/- on a Mac, I had to go ask someone how to remove an account on Mac exactly
because I did not manage to find the -. I am not saying that it does not make sense to
have it there, but I was used to the Mac actions to be on top of my selection, not below
it. Things are never black and white. That is why it is useful to talk principles, not
happenings.
Regarding the contextual task, what exactly is the problem?
that import is related to models and the first thing I get is an empty list and this is
where I start not to the browser of models that I have no clue what it is. Stef
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 21:26, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev come on doru you can have a design in mind if
user has to think all the time this means that the design does not work.
"Ok I should not use the contextual menu for this task" repeat after me and
breath.....
And now I have to learn by heart
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > I actually agree with steph.
I do not.
> The two menus might seem like an added facility but I believe they are confusing,
> e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
> (probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something it
concerns that something
http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity
It is not. When I want to interact with a model I have to click somewhere on a bar while
the list is in another place
In fact this is remote distributed object-orientation.
So, the two are not the same. The global one will
create a model, while the contextual one will populate the current model.
yeah sure. Now I have to always remember ok I should not use the contextual menu.
Now, I do agree that some of the menu items
should be eliminated, and I think that the import from the model menu is one candidate.
I do not even understand what you are saying on this one.
> I would also suggest a more traditional
menubar above the models output instead of the buttons that are on the top right of the
window.
> For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually finds
iconify/maximize/close buttons
The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions for
a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether this is
in a top window or embedded in some pane.
Well we can find all kind of good reasons. But at the end on mac there is a plus and
minus **Related to the list** not on the other side of the pane.
So adding and removing a model should not be at the other end of the pane.
Stef
> just my 2c
Thanks :)
Cheers,
Doru
> nicolas
>
> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
>> À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
>> Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
>> Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
>> Hi Stef,
>>
>> I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
>> specific?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
>>> Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
>>>
>>> Stef
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both
matter."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
25 May
25 May
7:58 a.m.
that import is
related to models and the first thing I get is an empty list and this is where I start not
to the browser of models that I have no clue what it is.
Perhaps something is not quite clear. In MoosePanel the contextual menu should work on
data only. Not on panels. If you do not see data, you should not be able to use the
contextual menu. But, let me ask you again. Now that you know that the
toolbar for the current browser/presentation is on the top right. Do you still have the
problem of looking for it and knowing what it relates to?
I do not know.
I think that if we are real about ui of moose we should perform a simple user study:
give a task and ask the person to talk loud about its perception.
repeat the process and learn.
My point is that location of the actuator and the its acted upon should be close.
We already fixed all the TERMINATE buttons. This was not good that I pose 2 s before
pressing it.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
Stef
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Cheers,
Doru
On 24 May 2011, at 21:26, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev come on doru you can have a design in mind if
user has to think all the time this means that the design does not work.
"Ok I should not use the contextual menu for this task" repeat after me and
breath.....
And now I have to learn by heart
>> I actually agree with steph.
>
> I do not.
>
>> The two menus might seem like an added facility but I believe they are confusing,
>> e.g. why is there two options to import from MSE? Are they equivalent or not?
>> (probably not since one is in the model conext menu, but then what does it do?)
>
> You cannot expect to use a tool without considering at all how it is designed.
>
> The design of the Moose UI is uniform and object oriented when you click on something
it concerns that something
> http://www.themoosebook.org/book/externals/ui/entity
It is not. When I want to interact with a model I have to click somewhere on a bar while
the list is in another place
In fact this is remote distributed object-orientation.
> So, the two are not the same. The global one will create a model, while the
contextual one will populate the current model.
yeah sure. Now I have to always remember ok I should not use the contextual menu.
> Now, I do agree that some of the menu items should be eliminated, and I think that
the import from the model menu is one candidate.
I do not even understand what you are saying on this one.
>> I would also suggest a more traditional menubar above the models output instead
of the buttons that are on the top right of the window.
>> For newcomers, they are likely to be ignored because this is where one usually
finds iconify/maximize/close buttons
>
> The design is intentional and again has to do with uniformity in Glamour: the actions
for a certain presentation/browser can be found on the top-right regardless of whether
this is in a top window or embedded in some pane.
Well we can find all kind of good reasons. But at the end on mac there is a plus and
minus **Related to the list** not on the other side of the pane.
So adding and removing a model should not be at the other end of the pane.
Stef
>
>> just my 2c
>
> Thanks :)
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>> nicolas
>>
>> ----- Mail original -----
>>> De: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>
>>> À: "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch>
>>> Envoyé: Mardi 24 Mai 2011 15:32:28
>>> Objet: [Moose-dev] Re: Why we do not have import in menu
>>> Hi Stef,
>>>
>>> I do not understand what this issue is about. Could you be more
>>> specific?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 May 2011, at 15:23, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> why do I have action in menus and action in toolbar?
>>>> Why as a user I have to remember where to look?
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They
both matter."
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9:33 a.m.
Some thoughts: Moose is a tool, not a full desktop environment.
As a tool, it should integrate into the desktop environment and follow the same
conventions, not create a set of convention for itself, however well founded they are.
(And no, Glamour is not a full desktop environment either.)
The problem of course is that we have at least three main desktop environments we can work
on and they don't follow the same conventions :-(
So what are the solutions?
- have very consensual convention, not invent our own
- have a very clever interface that can adapt to its desktop (hummm difficult, and lots of
work)
- use external renderer(s) (e.g. Java Swing or SWT :-) )
- ???
nicolas
9:52 a.m.
I think that the most of the choice of Moose are ok.
Now the menu bar of the main panel does not really work since it can be a strange menu
bar.
Stef
On May 25, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Nicolas Anquetil wrote:
Some thoughts: Moose is a tool, not a full desktop environment.
As a tool, it should integrate into the desktop environment and follow the same
conventions, not create a set of convention for itself, however well founded they are.
(And no, Glamour is not a full desktop environment either.)
The problem of course is that we have at least three main desktop environments we can
work on and they don't follow the same conventions :-(
So what are the solutions?
- have very consensual convention, not invent our own
- have a very clever interface that can adapt to its desktop (hummm difficult, and lots
of work)
- use external renderer(s) (e.g. Java Swing or SWT :-) )
- ???
nicolas
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9:52 a.m.
Hi,
On 25 May 2011, at 09:33, Nicolas Anquetil wrote:
Some thoughts: Moose is a tool, not a full desktop environment.
As a tool, it should integrate into the desktop environment and follow the same
conventions, not create a set of convention for itself, however well founded they are.
(And no, Glamour is not a full desktop environment either.)
No it is not. Nobody said it is. Glamour is simply inventing a class of its own: the data
browser environment. This happens to have its own constraints and patterns. And yes, I
think this is an opportunity to invent something new and useful, not a problem of not
conforming.
If Pharo would have native widgets support, the situation would be different. But we do
not have it.
The problem of course is that we have at least three
main desktop environments we can work on and they don't follow the same conventions
:-(
What do you mean?
So what are the solutions?
- have very consensual convention, not invent our own
There is none for good browsers of data.
- have a very clever interface that can adapt to its
desktop (hummm difficult, and lots of work)
No way :)
- use external renderer(s) (e.g. Java Swing or SWT :-)
)
Right now we use Morphic, which is as integrated into the desktop environment as Swing.
- ???
Go on the web because there we have native widget support :)
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
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"Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done."
5:31 p.m.
We already fixed all the TERMINATE buttons. This was
not good that I pose 2 s before pressing it.
I see that 'Finish' is now in last Wizard panels. But why not 'Proceed' ?
I find it much more intuitive and close to what we really want to do when using a wizard.
Cheers,
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
5:39 p.m.
Yes :)
Stef
On May 25, 2011, at 5:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
We already
fixed all the TERMINATE buttons. This was not good that I pose 2 s before pressing it.
I see that 'Finish' is now in last Wizard panels. But why not 'Proceed' ?
I find it much more intuitive and close to what we really want to do when using a wizard.
Cheers,
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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13 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Alexandre Bergel -
Nicolas Anquetil -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba