26 Jun
2014
26 Jun
'14
9:31 a.m.
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the
snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove
playground
Stef
26 Jun
26 Jun
9:36 a.m.
On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:31, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all
our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Maybe it was easier to take unmodified image and install things that you need rather than
uninstalling broken stuff?
Just my 2 cents :)
Uko
Stef
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9:42 a.m.
On 26/6/14 09:36, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:31, stepharo
<stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
yes I will do that and probably set up my own Moose distribution. I
guess that this is what you did so many be we should share knowledge
my problem is that I want to debug snapshotCello on moose.
Stef
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Maybe it was easier to take unmodified image and install things that you need
rather than uninstalling broken stuff?
Just my 2 cents :)
Uko
Stef
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9:53 a.m.
On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:42, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
On 26/6/14 09:36, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs magical script that
sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived before this script is
being run. So then I can set up the inspector and so on by myself, while everything other
remains like in vanilla pharo.
Uko
On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:31, stepharo
<stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
yes I will do that and probably set up my own Moose distribution. I guess that this is
what you did so many be we should share knowledge
my problem is that I want to debug snapshotCello on moose. To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Maybe it was easier to take unmodified image and install things that you need
rather than uninstalling broken stuff?
Just my 2 cents :)
Stef
Uko
_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Stef
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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12:03 p.m.
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs
magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less
image is archived before this script is being run. So then I can set
up the inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains
like in vanilla pharo.
Uko
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Uko
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Stef
_______________________________________________
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12:49 p.m.
It's on the original Moose job, just another archive called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now Pharo doesn't
provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be asked when I start the image
for the first time if I want to use the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't,
I'd prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures
the image for everyone (without asking of course). That's I archive the image before
the script is being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others to use my
configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo
<stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs magical
script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived before this
script is being run. So then I can set up the inspector and so on by myself, while
everything other remains like in vanilla pharo.
Uko
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Uko
> Stef
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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4:30 p.m.
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
It's on the original Moose job, just another
archive called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now
Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer
to be asked when I start the image for the first time if I want to use
the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay
with my own setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures the
image for everyone (without asking of course). That's I archive the
image before the script is being run, so I can download it and set it
up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others
to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs
magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less
image is archived before this script is being run. So then I can set
up the inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains
like in vanilla pharo.
Uko
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Stef
>
> Uko
>
>> Stef
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
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4:35 p.m.
Hi Stef,
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and two
of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to
encounter a serious analysis project that did not involve some XML.
Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be used in all sorts of non-code
related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
It's on the original Moose job, just another archive called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now
Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be
asked when I start the image for the first time if I want to use the
alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own
setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures the image for everyone
(without asking of course). That's I archive the image before the script is
being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others
to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs
magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is
archived before this script is being run. So then I can set up the
inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains like in
vanilla pharo.
Uko
Stef
Uko
Stef
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--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
4:50 p.m.
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and
two of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to
encounter a serious analysis project that did not involve some XML.
Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be used in all sorts of
non-code related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system
bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C, and keep
the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old smalltalkers
that do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of
EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable in
one click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is a cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose certified
packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why we
cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back to my
ugly solution (but this is raging because snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello. But
metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
It's on the original Moose job, just
another archive called
moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for
now Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would
prefer to be asked when I start the image for the first time if I
want to use the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd
prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have this, and Moose
job configures the image for everyone (without asking of course).
That's I archive the image before the script is being run, so I
can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force
others to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
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--
www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should
rethink it.
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job
runs magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now
moose-less image is archived before this script is being run.
So then I can set up the inspector and so on by myself, while
everything other remains like in vanilla pharo.
Uko
>
> Stef
>>
>> Uko
>>
>>> Stef
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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5:03 p.m.
Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you are
referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of
configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them, and we should
remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code that brings
enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so pervasive, at least in
the projects I was exposed to, that it does not make much sense to claim
easy data analysis without supporting it out of the box. Btw, JSON starts
to be a candidate as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need to
ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and two
of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to
encounter a serious analysis project that did not involve some XML.
Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be used in all sorts of non-code
related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C, and keep
the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old smalltalkers that
do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of
EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable in one
click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is a
cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose certified
packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why we
cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back to my
ugly solution (but this is raging because snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello. But
metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
It's on the original Moose job, just another archive called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now
Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be
asked when I start the image for the first time if I want to use the
alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own
setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures the image for everyone
(without asking of course). That's I archive the image before the script is
being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others
to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs
magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is
archived before this script is being run. So then I can set up the
inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains like in
vanilla pharo.
Uko
Stef
Uko
Stef
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_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing
listMoose-dev@iam.unibe.chhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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5:32 p.m.
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded?
Why can't they be loaded on demand?
Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you are
referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of
configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them, and we
should remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code that
brings enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so pervasive,
at least in the projects I was exposed to, that it does not make much
sense to claim easy data analysis without supporting it out of the
box. Btw, JSON starts to be a candidate as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need to
ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal
and two of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am
still to encounter a serious analysis project that did not
involve some XML. Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be
used in all sorts of non-code related projects, I feel more that
FAMIX makes the system bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C,
and keep the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old
smalltalkers that do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of
EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable
in one click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is
a cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose
certified packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why
we cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back
to my ugly solution (but this is raging because snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello.
But metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
_______________________________________________
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--
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"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev It's on the original Moose job, just
another archive called
moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but
for now Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration
mechanics. I would prefer to be asked when I start the image
for the first time if I want to use the alternative theme or
tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own setup.
We don't have this, and Moose job configures the image for
everyone (without asking of course). That's I archive the
image before the script is being run, so I can download it
and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't
force others to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
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"Every thing has its own flow"
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we
should rethink it.
Stef
>
> The thing is that after loading all packages current build
> job runs magical script that sets up theme, tools and so
> on. Now moose-less image is archived before this script is
> being run. So then I can set up the inspector and so on by
> myself, while everything other remains like in vanilla pharo.
>
> Uko
>
>
>>
>> Stef
>>>
>>> Uko
>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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5:47 p.m.
I've always viewed Moose as closer to an end-user tool. I want to open the
tool up and be able to start using it, not digging around trying to
remember what arcane names I need to load to get the parts I need to do
analysis. (Is it Arki? EyeSee? GraphET? GraphET3? which XML?) Bah, jsut
ahve the right tools loaded so I, an end user, can start using them.
As a non-end-user, isn't that what Pharo gives you - the starting point
that you can just load the parts of Moose that you want into your image?
Make the stuff loadable from there that you want.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:32 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so
reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded?
Why can't they be loaded on demand?
Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you are
referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of
configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them, and we should
remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code that
brings enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so pervasive, at
least in the projects I was exposed to, that it does not make much sense to
claim easy data analysis without supporting it out of the box. Btw, JSON
starts to be a candidate as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need to
ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and two
of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to
encounter a serious analysis project that did not involve some XML.
Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be used in all sorts of non-code
related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C, and keep
the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old smalltalkers
that do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of
EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable in one
click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is a
cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose certified
packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why we
cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back to my
ugly solution (but this is raging because snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello. But
metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing
listMoose-dev@iam.unibe.chhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
It's on the original Moose job, just another archive called
moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now
Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be
asked when I start the image for the first time if I want to use the
alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own
setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures the image for everyone
(without asking of course). That's I archive the image before the script is
being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others
to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Where is your ci?
Because
Hi yuri
where is your ci?
Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
Stef
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs
magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is
archived before this script is being run. So then I can set up the
inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains like in
vanilla pharo.
Uko
Stef
Uko
Stef
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing
listMoose-dev@iam.unibe.chhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing
listMoose-dev@iam.unibe.chhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing
listMoose-dev@iam.unibe.chhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
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5:52 p.m.
Moose has a VERY steep learning curve. And I cannot call it end-user tool. I can call it
high-skilled-shaman-tool.
Uko
On 26 Jun 2014, at 17:47, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I've always viewed Moose as closer to an end-user
tool. I want to open the tool up and be able to start using it, not digging around trying
to remember what arcane names I need to load to get the parts I need to do analysis. (Is
it Arki? EyeSee? GraphET? GraphET3? which XML?) Bah, jsut ahve the right tools loaded so
I, an end user, can start using them.
As a non-end-user, isn't that what Pharo gives you - the starting point that you can
just load the parts of Moose that you want into your image? Make the stuff loadable from
there that you want.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:32 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded?
Why can't they be loaded on demand?
Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you are referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of configurations. I agree
that we should refactor some of them, and we should remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a
good candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code that brings enough value
for a certain audience. And, XML is so pervasive, at least in the projects I was exposed
to, that it does not make much sense to claim easy data analysis without supporting it out
of the box. Btw, JSON starts to be a candidate as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need to ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and two of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to encounter a serious
analysis project that did not involve some XML. Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to
be used in all sorts of non-code related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system
bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C, and keep the minimum and
not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old smalltalkers that do not
understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of EXTERNAL packages
loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable in one click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is a cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose certified packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why we cannot snapshot a
version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back to my ugly solution (but
this is raging because snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello. But metacello is probably
far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev It's on the original Moose job, just another
archive called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now Pharo
doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be asked when I
start the image for the first time if I want to use the alternative theme or tools. And if
I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have this, and Moose
job configures the image for everyone (without asking of course). That's I archive the
image before the script is being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others to use my
configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
> Where is your ci?
> Because
> Hi yuri
>
> where is your ci?
> Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it.
>
> Stef
>
>>
>> The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs magical
script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived before this
script is being run. So then I can set up the inspector and so on by myself, while
everything other remains like in vanilla pharo.
>>
>> Uko
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> Uko
>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
6:05 p.m.
On 26/6/14 17:52, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
Moose has a VERY steep learning curve. And I cannot
call it end-user
tool. I can call it high-skilled-shaman-tool.
:)
Moose is the warp synthetizer of doru :)
Stef
Uko
On 26 Jun 2014, at 17:47, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com
<mailto:cunningham.cb@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've always viewed Moose as closer to an
end-user tool. I want to
open the tool up and be able to start using it, not digging around
trying to remember what arcane names I need to load to get the parts
I need to do analysis. (Is it Arki? EyeSee? GraphET? GraphET3?
which XML?) Bah, jsut ahve the right tools loaded so I, an end user,
can start using them.
As a non-end-user, isn't that what Pharo gives you - the starting
point that you can just load the parts of Moose that you want into
your image? Make the stuff loadable from there that you want.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:32 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded?
Why can't they be loaded on demand?
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you
are referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots
of configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them,
and we should remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good
candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code
that brings enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so
pervasive, at least in the projects I was exposed to, that it
does not make much sense to claim easy data analysis without
supporting it out of the box. Btw, JSON starts to be a candidate
as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need
to ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
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Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of
Roassal and two of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I
am still to encounter a serious analysis project that did
not involve some XML. Actually, at this point, as Moose
gets to be used in all sorts of non-code related projects,
I feel more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
This is plain
wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo,
FAMIX-C, and keep the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old
smalltalkers that do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given
list of EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but
loadable in one click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an
image is a cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose
certified packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to
find why we cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go
back to my ugly solution (but this is raging because
snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of
metacello. But metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
> It's on the original Moose job, just another archive
> called moose-less.zip
>
> The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the
> tools, but for now Pharo doesn't provide a good
> configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be asked
> when I start the image for the first time if I want to
> use the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't,
> I'd prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have
> this, and Moose job configures the image for everyone
> (without asking of course). That's I archive the image
> before the script is being run, so I can download it
> and set it up for myself.
>
> For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I
> can't force others to use my configuration.
>
> Uko
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
>
>> Where is your ci?
>> Because
>> Hi yuri
>>
>> where is your ci?
>> Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we
>> should rethink it.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>>
>>> The thing is that after loading all packages current
>>> build job runs magical script that sets up theme,
>>> tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived
>>> before this script is being run. So then I can set
>>> up the inspector and so on by myself, while
>>> everything other remains like in vanilla pharo.
>>>
>>> Uko
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>> Uko
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
>>>>>> <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
<mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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--
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"Every thing has its own flow"
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--
www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
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6:03 p.m.
I've always viewed Moose as closer to an end-user
tool. I want to
open the tool up and be able to start using it, not digging around
trying to remember what arcane names I need to load to get the parts I
need to do analysis. (Is it Arki? EyeSee? GraphET? GraphET3? which
XML?) Bah, jsut ahve the right tools loaded so I, an end user, can
start using them.
I can understand but this is not wise.
Now if your configuration is loaded in Pharo the fly by help of nautilus
shows you a description of
the configuration. So that people can learn.
Now we have to pay the price and the price is a bloated image.
I do not think that you really realize the complexity of the system and
adding more is just insane.
Check my other mail with the dependency of the configurations that were
working.
Stef
As a non-end-user, isn't that what Pharo gives you - the starting
point that you can just load the parts of Moose that you want into
your image? Make the stuff loadable from there that you want.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:32 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded?
Why can't they be loaded on demand?
Hi Stef,
Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you
are referring to.
We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of
configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them, and
we should remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good candidate
for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code
that brings enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so
pervasive, at least in the projects I was exposed to, that it
does not make much sense to claim easy data analysis without
supporting it out of the box. Btw, JSON starts to be a candidate
as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need
to ignoreImage?
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
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Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of
Roassal and two of Graph-ET.
But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am
still to encounter a serious analysis project that did not
involve some XML. Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to
be used in all sorts of non-code related projects, I feel
more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
This is plain wrong.
Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo,
FAMIX-C, and keep the minimum and not a kitchen sink.
Else you should load also
JSON
and many others.
Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand.
You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old
smalltalkers that do not understand anything to modularity.
We can have a small moose image where we test that a given
list of EXTERNAL packages loads correctly
and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but
loadable in one click.
You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an
image is a cache.
Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose
certified packages?
Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose.
Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find
why we cannot snapshot a version of each package
and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go
back to my ugly solution (but this is raging because
snapshotcello
was an important element) to me it should be part of
metacello. But metacello is probably far too complex too.
Stef
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default
XML
NeoCSV
....
Stef
On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
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https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev It's on the original Moose job,
just another archive
called moose-less.zip
The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the
tools, but for now Pharo doesn't provide a good
configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be asked
when I start the image for the first time if I want to
use the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd
prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have this,
and Moose job configures the image for everyone
(without asking of course). That's I archive the image
before the script is being run, so I can download it
and set it up for myself.
For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I
can't force others to use my configuration.
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:03, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
> Where is your ci?
> Because
> Hi yuri
>
> where is your ci?
> Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we
> should rethink it.
>
> Stef
>
>>
>> The thing is that after loading all packages current
>> build job runs magical script that sets up theme,
>> tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived
>> before this script is being run. So then I can set up
>> the inspector and so on by myself, while everything
>> other remains like in vanilla pharo.
>>
>> Uko
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> Uko
>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
<mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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2:37 p.m.
I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really understand what
people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this
impression by the way.
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all
our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Stef
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Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
2:41 p.m.
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote:
I have followed other threads about GT from far away.
I do not really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this
impression by the way.
I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem is not in the GT
tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
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3:40 p.m.
The problem I have with the debugger, is that it is a bit slow. But the colored list and
being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing…
Alexandre
--
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Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote:
I have followed other threads about GT from far
away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this
impression by the way.
I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem is not in the
GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
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^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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3:44 p.m.
I also noted that it is slower than I would want it to be, but I am not
sure why it is the case. We should measure that.
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>
wrote:
The problem I have with the debugger, is that it is a
bit slow. But the
colored list and being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing…
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>
wrote:
I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really
understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in
Chile share this impression by the way.
I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem
is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to
decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the
snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove
playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
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^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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"Every thing has its own flow"
3:51 p.m.
I'm almost sure it has something to do with displaying a MethodContext
within the inspector.
I'll have a look.
Cheers,
Andrei
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I also noted that it is slower than I would want it to
be, but I am not
sure why it is the case. We should measure that.
Cheers,
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com
wrote:
The problem I have with the debugger, is that it
is a bit slow. But the
colored list and being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing…
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>
wrote:
I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really
understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in
Chile share this impression by the way.
I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem
is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to
decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the
snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove
playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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4:40 p.m.
On 26/6/14 15:40, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
The problem I have with the debugger, is that it is a
bit slow. But
the colored list and being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing...
The problem is that the icons are not using all the space and we have to
learn them. I propose you
put the names and the logos.
Then it is slow and some key bindings do not work and I often arrive in
situations where I cannot even get
button/menu or whatever. With igor we were pissed off the last time for
just ofr the sake of it.
We were debugging font problems that Moose people could have solved simply.
Because there is no magic a registration mechanism was missing.
What is cmd-o
Stef
Alexandre
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Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com
<mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>> wrote:
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com
<mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev I have followed other threads about GT from far
away. I do not
really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people
in Chile share this impression by the way.
I don't like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the
problem is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of
possibility to decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch <mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch>
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
<http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7EStephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars>
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the
snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style,
remove playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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5:21 p.m.
It open an inspector embedded within the debugger. this is ultra cool, seriously.
I made a contrived example here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/TMP/InspectorInTheDebugger.mov
There is really something great in the GT tools. At the very beginning I was not convinced
of it. Now I am fully.
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 10:40 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
What is cmd-o
5:35 p.m.
My point is that
- the inspector does not have to be inside.
- now if people wants that then perfect for them
- but forcing tools on people is counterproductive
It open an inspector embedded within the debugger.
this is ultra cool,
seriously.
I made a contrived example here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/TMP/InspectorInTheDebugger.mov
There is really something great in the GT tools. At the very beginning
I was not convinced of it. Now I am fully.
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jun 26, 2014, at 10:40 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
What is cmd-o
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4:35 p.m.
On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel
<alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote:
+ 1000
I do not force people to use linux/mac or windows so why all my tools
should be changed
when I nicely try to fix this system and kill my productivity.
Or Moosers here is what we can do. You pay me this is around 800 Euros a
day and I can go slowly and
work with any tools you want even bogus ones.
Stef
I have followed other threads about GT from far
away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this
impression by the way.
I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for
me, the problem is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to
decide.
Uko
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking
all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
MCSmalltalkhubRepository
owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
project: 'PetitsBazars'
user: ''
password: ''
So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and
now of course I should start to leave.
So so productive!
But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
Stef
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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4:34 p.m.
I have followed other threads about GT from far away.
I do not really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this
impression by the way.
I cannot select text.
If you can then this is excellent for you.
Now WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO USE something that does not work with me
when I'm debugging the system?
You know Windows is really great until a syst admin force you to use it.
Stef
Alexandre
On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote:
> To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools
> I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at
>
> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars
>
>
> MCSmalltalkhubRepository
> owner: 'StephaneDucasse'
> project: 'PetitsBazars'
> user: ''
> password: ''
>
>
> So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem
and now of course I should start to leave.
> So so productive!
>
> But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground
> Stef
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> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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participants (6)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Andrei Chis -
Chris Cunningham -
stepharo -
Tudor Girba -
Yuriy Tymchuk