2:06 p.m.
When working on eclipse, I discovered the necessity to represents things like plugins or
components which are not directly handled in Famix.
It is important if we want to be able to deal with real world cases.
May be we should consider introducing them as Moose Entities?
Or may be not: I used Moose-Groups (of class because one package can be spread over
different plugins) and it is not that bad.
the main issue, in my case, was that classes don't know to what group they have been
assigned...
So computing dependencies could be very lengthy.
I solved that by creating a dictionary on the side, but maybe we should think on a better
solution.
And then of course integrate this with all the tools...
nicolas
3:06 p.m.
Hi Nicolas,
On 10 Jun 2011, at 14:06, Nicolas Anquetil wrote:
When working on eclipse, I discovered the necessity to represents things like plugins or
components which are not directly handled in Famix.
It is important if we want to be able to deal with real world cases.
I am not sure I understand. Could you be more specific?
May be we should consider introducing them as Moose Entities?
FAMIX is meant to be extended. For example, to model JEE systems, we added entities like
EntityBean or SessionBeans.
Or may be not: I used Moose-Groups (of class because one package can
be spread over different plugins) and it is not that bad.
the main issue, in my case, was that classes don't know to what group they have been
assigned...
Groups are not meant to work bidirectionally. But, perhaps it would be an interesting
addition to try to add this information.
So computing dependencies could be very lengthy.
I solved that by creating a dictionary on the side, but maybe we should think on a better
solution.
And then of course integrate this with all the tools...
Interesting. I would be interested in hearing the actual cases.
Cheers,
Doru
nicolas
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5:43 p.m.
> When working on eclipse, I discovered the necessity to
represents
> things like plugins or components which are not directly handled in
> Famix.
> It is important if we want to be able to deal with real world
cases.
I am not sure I understand. Could you be more specific?
> May be we should consider introducing them as Moose Entities?
FAMIX is meant to be extended. For example, to model JEE systems, we
added entities like EntityBean or SessionBeans.
If I works with Eclipse project, at some point I will want to handle plugins as entities.
For example, if the application is very big, or if I want to think about the architecture,
I will want to work with plugins (components) rather than packages.
So now I want plugins in Moose.
Of course, I can extend the metamodel, but this means I have to think where to put it, may
be implement metrics, create the MooseChef queries, ...
Whereas by using MooseGroup I can instantly prototype components without changing Famix,
so I have some guarantee that things will just work.
Except that to work, many things require bidirectional navigation (from group to members
and members back to its group(s) ) ...
> Or may be not: I used Moose-Groups (of class because one package
can
> be spread over different plugins) and it is not that bad.
> the main issue, in my case, was that classes don't know to what
> group they have been assigned...
Groups are not meant to work bidirectionally. But, perhaps it would
be
an interesting addition to try to add this information.
> So computing dependencies could be very lengthy.
> I solved that by creating a dictionary on the side, but maybe we
> should think on a better solution.
> And then of course integrate this with all the tools...
Interesting. I would be interested in hearing the actual cases.
Two concrete cases that are cited above:
- when computing metrics on eclipse, I wanted the metrics at the level of plugins. Instead
of defining a FamixEclipsePlugin entity, I created each plugin has a class group, and
implemented the few metrics I needed on that (which required bidirectional navigation).
- we are supposed to look soon at a big eclipse "application" where the guy is
interested in looking at the dependences between plugins because there are too many
classes and packages to work at that level.
This implies having bidirectional navigation.
If DSM, metrics, MooseChef where already working on MooseGroups, I would have an instant
poor man component ...
- It could be used to define application layers and reason about them. We had the issue
recently for a paper, where we wanted to look at dependencies between a package and
itself, the package with its application, and the package with the underlying layer(s)
(e.g. a framework on which the application is defined). For this we had to hack some
dependency queries ...
- I could also maybe test various possible system decomposition using groups (somehow
similar to what Orion can do).
nicolas
5:50 p.m.
> If I works with Eclipse project, at some point I will want to
handle plugins as entities.
For example, if the application is very big, or if I want to think about the
architecture, I will want to work with plugins (components) rather than packages.
So now I want plugins in Moose.
Yes now I would just extend FAMIX for that
Of course, I can extend the metamodel, but this means I have to think
where to put it, may be implement metrics, create the MooseChef queries, ...
Yes which to me is good no?
How do you identify a plugin?
Whereas by using MooseGroup I can instantly prototype components
without changing Famix, so I have some guarantee that things will just work.
Except that to work, many things require bidirectional navigation (from group to members
and members back to its group(s) ) ...
>> Or may be not: I used Moose-Groups (of class because one package can
>> be spread over different plugins) and it is not that bad.
>> the main issue, in my case, was that classes don't know to what
>> group they have been assigned...
> Groups are not meant to work bidirectionally. But, perhaps it would be
> an interesting addition to try to add this information.
>> So computing dependencies could be very lengthy.
>> I solved that by creating a dictionary on the side, but maybe we
>> should think on a better solution.
>> And then of course integrate this with all the tools...
> Interesting. I would be interested in hearing the actual cases.
Two concrete cases that are cited above:
- when computing metrics on eclipse, I wanted the metrics at the level of plugins.
Instead of defining a FamixEclipsePlugin entity, I created each plugin has a class group,
and implemented the few metrics I needed on that (which required bidirectional
navigation).
:)
- we are supposed to look soon at a big eclipse
"application" where the guy is interested in looking at the dependences between
plugins because there are too many classes and packages to work at that level.
This implies having bidirectional navigation.
If DSM, metrics, MooseChef where already working on MooseGroups, I would have an instant
poor man component ...
Yes that too :)
- It could be used to define application layers and reason about
them. We had the issue recently for a paper, where we wanted to look at dependencies
between a package and itself, the package with its application, and the package with the
underlying layer(s) (e.g. a framework on which the application is defined). For this we
had to hack some dependency queries ...
- I could also maybe test various possible system decomposition using groups (somehow
similar to what Orion can do).
nicolas
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4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Nicolas Anquetil -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba