Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed: - Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details. - White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com
wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
I'm not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
Also I like the idea that you don't have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I
was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don't think that my issue is something serious, but it's a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn't be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as
it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.comwrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
At the moment it’s hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let’s try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Thanks, Yuriy. We need to invent these tools dramatically. This is a huge opportunity both for Pharo and for Moose. The road will not be smooth all the time, but I think that the most difficult things are now a thing of the past.
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.comwrote:
I'm not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
At the moment it's hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Also I like the idea that you don't have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I
was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don't think that my issue is something serious, but it's a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn't be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let's try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but
as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.comwrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Doru for the debugger may be you should have a version with text and icons. Text is nice because I do not have to learn them by hearth I just read.
Stef
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:48, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Thanks, Yuriy. We need to invent these tools dramatically. This is a huge opportunity both for Pharo and for Moose. The road will not be smooth all the time, but I think that the most difficult things are now a thing of the past.
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
At the moment it’s hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let’s try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
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Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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On 28 Mar 2014, at 21:25, Pharo4Stef pharo4Stef@free.fr wrote:
Doru for the debugger may be you should have a version with text and icons. Text is nice because I do not have to learn them by hearth I just read.
I second that :). (or Stef seconded my stuff )
Uko
Stef
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:48, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Thanks, Yuriy. We need to invent these tools dramatically. This is a huge opportunity both for Pharo and for Moose. The road will not be smooth all the time, but I think that the most difficult things are now a thing of the past.
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
At the moment it’s hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let’s try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
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+ 1
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:48, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Thanks, Yuriy. We need to invent these tools dramatically. This is a huge opportunity both for Pharo and for Moose. The road will not be smooth all the time, but I think that the most difficult things are now a thing of the past.
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access.
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
At the moment it’s hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :).
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let’s try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
> On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote: > > Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered. > > @Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: >> What Moose-less contains then? >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: >> >> > Hi guys. >> > >> > I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else. >> > >> > Uko >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Moose-dev mailing list >> > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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Hi Uko!
I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now.
Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com a écrit :
I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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This enables the colors on the stack: GTGenericStackDebugger enableStackColoring: true. It's on my todo list to improve this feature :)
Cheers, Andrei
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
Hi Uko!
I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now.
Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com a écrit :
I'm not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don't have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don't think that my issue is something serious, but it's a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn't be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as
it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.comwrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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Thanks!
Why is this not per default? Anyone has an objection from having colored stack?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Andrei Chis chisvasileandrei@gmail.com wrote:
This enables the colors on the stack: GTGenericStackDebugger enableStackColoring: true. It's on my todo list to improve this feature :)
Cheers, Andrei
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote:
Hi Uko!
I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now.
Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com a écrit :
I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote: It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
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I added it to the image. It should be available with the next build.
Doru
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
Thanks!
Why is this not per default? Anyone has an objection from having colored stack?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Andrei Chis chisvasileandrei@gmail.com wrote:
This enables the colors on the stack: GTGenericStackDebugger
enableStackColoring: true.
It's on my todo list to improve this feature :)
Cheers, Andrei
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel <
alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Uko!
I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the
old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now.
Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so
cool to have them...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com a écrit :
I'm not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are
not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don't have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that
I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don't think that my issue is something serious, but it's a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn't be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and
learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on,
but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com
wrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get
suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves
time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup
being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel <
alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com
wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
Hi Uko!
I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them.
+1. I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace.
The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now.
Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com a écrit :
I'm not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don't have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground.
The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don't think that my issue is something serious, but it's a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn't be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on.
Uko
On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed:
- Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as
it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme
What other things don't you like and why?
Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.comwrote:
It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools.
I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI
Uko
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered.
@Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you?
Cheers, Doru
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre
On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymchuk@me.com wrote:
Hi guys.
I've created a "Moose-less" version
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zipbeca... some people (including me of course) don't want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It's created during a main Mosse build as it's already there anyway. But if you don't like it, I can move it to somewhere else.
Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
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Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
+1. I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace.
Talking about space distribution, GTToolkit could be significantly improved. Here is the small example I’ve just typed for Usman.
There is definitely too much wasted space from the top of the window until there is my code. Also, why is there a tab called “Playground”? and a tab “a RTView(a RTView)”? Maybe “State View Methods” could be at the level than the icon kind-of-file on the right hand side?
Easy to do I guess: Would it be possible to order the tab as “View State Methods” ? and have View selected per default? This would be great great!
Alexandre
Hi Alex,
What you get to the right is a full inspector. This means that as you go to the right, you will encounter all sorts of objects. For an inspector, the first use case is to be able to identify the object you are looking at. Currently, we achieve it with an overall tab. That is why you see RTView on top.
I would love to get people working on widgets so that we can get smarter UIs, but at the moment I do not have another reasonable solution.
Related to the order of presentations. The inspector is quite sensitive because it is the most basic tool we have in the image. In your case, you see the playground as an easel and you want the RTView to show the view. But, when people look at an inspector, the most prominent use case is to look at the state.
In any case, you can just play with things and we learn from it. Changing the order is a simple matter of changing the numbers in the pragma. See here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions
Cheers, Doru
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
+1. I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace.
Talking about space distribution, GTToolkit could be significantly improved. Here is the small example I've just typed for Usman.
There is definitely too much wasted space from the top of the window until there is my code. Also, why is there a tab called "Playground"? and a tab "a RTView(a RTView)"? Maybe "State View Methods" could be at the level than the icon kind-of-file on the right hand side?
Easy to do I guess: Would it be possible to order the tab as "View State Methods" ? and have View selected per default? This would be great great!
Alexandre
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Ok, thanks. I’ve just committed
RTView>>gtInspectorViewIn: composite <gtInspectorPresentationOrder: -10> composite roassal2 title: 'View'; initializeView: [ self ] I hope this is fine with you guys
Alexandre
On Mar 31, 2014, at 2:08 AM, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi Alex,
What you get to the right is a full inspector. This means that as you go to the right, you will encounter all sorts of objects. For an inspector, the first use case is to be able to identify the object you are looking at. Currently, we achieve it with an overall tab. That is why you see RTView on top.
I would love to get people working on widgets so that we can get smarter UIs, but at the moment I do not have another reasonable solution.
Related to the order of presentations. The inspector is quite sensitive because it is the most basic tool we have in the image. In your case, you see the playground as an easel and you want the RTView to show the view. But, when people look at an inspector, the most prominent use case is to look at the state.
In any case, you can just play with things and we learn from it. Changing the order is a simple matter of changing the numbers in the pragma. See here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions
Cheers, Doru
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote:
+1. I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace.
Talking about space distribution, GTToolkit could be significantly improved. Here is the small example I’ve just typed for Usman.
<Screen Shot 2014-03-29 at 7.27.14 PM.png>
There is definitely too much wasted space from the top of the window until there is my code. Also, why is there a tab called “Playground”? and a tab “a RTView(a RTView)”? Maybe “State View Methods” could be at the level than the icon kind-of-file on the right hand side?
Easy to do I guess: Would it be possible to order the tab as “View State Methods” ? and have View selected per default? This would be great great!
Alexandre
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Andrei Chis -
Pharo4Stef -
Tudor Girba -
Usman Bhatti -
Yuriy Tymchuk