[Moose-dev] Re: can you say to alex that edges are slow?

yes but there is something that I don't understand: why each node and edges does not keep these state ? width and height are cool to keep, but this is the same problem for color, border.... Each of them could have computation beside; so the problem is in general. Maybe my vision is naive but if each node and edge keep its state, we do not need a cache or multiple computations.

There is something not clear for me :) On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:19 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I can add something like: > MOShape>>enableCache > MOShape>>disableCache > > In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per > node. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Hi Doru, >> >> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. >> Now, the problem is more general: >> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make >> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization. >> >> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should >> integrate the cache system, not each work we do. >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi Jannik, >>> >>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. >>>> So, what is done with bluprint: >>>> >>>> Load Moose in Moose, >>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. >>>> It is easier like that :) >>>> >>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why >>>> Mondrian compute all the time. >>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? >>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with >>>> all things that we can do ? >>> >>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that >>> if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the >>> case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the >>> rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in >>> the benchmark. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Jannik, >>>>> >>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the >>>>> decompression fails. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create >>>>> a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and >>>>> sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the >>>>> computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian >>>>> calls this computation too many times. Using such a script >>>>> allows us to get an idea of where the problem is. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, I understand. >>>>>> >>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the >>>>>> script, or use a moose cache. >>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can fing t image here: >>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics >>>>>>>> (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling >>>>>>>> the canvas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide >>>>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a >>>>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really >>>>>>> computed just once. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the >>>>>>>>> metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. >>>>>>>>> Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can >>>>>>>>> reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click >>>>>>>>> image? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), >>>>>>>>>> it is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this >>>>>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>>>>>>>> scripting. >>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable >>>>>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian >>>>>>>>>> is useful ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>>>>>>>> language. >>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that >>>>>>>>>> Mondrian can do this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a >>>>>>>>>>>> lot faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug >>>>>>>>>>> introduced with the zOrder. >>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. >>>>>>>>>>>> I tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You >>>>>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see >>>>>>>>>>> where the problem comes from. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will >>>>>>>>>>>> let you know. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner >>>>>>>>>>>>> nodes and edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or takes more than 1 min) to move the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrollbar or switch to other windows... I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think the edges are causing this problem, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed a slowdown, but it is not that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ,.;:~ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're >>> fighting is the right one." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev --- Jannik Laval _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev