Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are: - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way. - having a small core embeddable in your application - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts - having a better help system (à la ProfStef) - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2 - exporting as PDF - anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
Cheers, Alexandre
NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
On Apr 1, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
this is a nice idea
- having a small core embeddable in your application
- making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
- having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
- dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
- exporting as PDF
- anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
:)
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this
is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.
Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
this is a nice idea
Thanks :)
- having a small core embeddable in your application
- making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
- having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
- dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
- exporting as PDF
- anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
:)
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her."
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a
very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers
could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
this is a nice idea
Thanks :)
Fun to hear that, because the initial Mondrian code I wrote for Squeak/Pharo had layers. Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
Lukas
On 1 Apr 2010, at 23:33, Lukas Renggli wrote:
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this
is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.
Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
this is a nice idea
Thanks :)
Fun to hear that, because the initial Mondrian code I wrote for Squeak/Pharo had layers.
Ha, I was waiting for that :).
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Doru
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution."
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
Lukas
On 2 Apr 2010, at 00:03, Lukas Renggli wrote:
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know about the minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?
Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.
Cheers, Doru
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know about the minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?
The fisheye layout was not using Mondrian, also because he had some animations on it.
Mondrian was used in the context and receiver inspector to visualize the relationship between the objects.
The layout was based on GraphViz.
Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.
I doubt that you can get it any faster with the technology built into Pharo, because in the end the drawing works through primitives and the aliasing is just a flag that is set. Maybe something based on Cairo or OpenGL would be faster?
Lukas
On 2 Apr 2010, at 00:21, Lukas Renggli wrote:
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know about the minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?
The fisheye layout was not using Mondrian, also because he had some animations on it.
Mondrian was used in the context and receiver inspector to visualize the relationship between the objects.
The layout was based on GraphViz.
Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.
I doubt that you can get it any faster with the technology built into Pharo, because in the end the drawing works through primitives and the aliasing is just a flag that is set. Maybe something based on Cairo or OpenGL would be faster?
I suppose.
One thing I was thinking of was to trigger the anti-aliasing at least when exporting the picture and not for regular visualizations. The idea is that when you export it you have time and you typically want better quality (paper, report or just bragging :)). That should be doable now.
Cheers, Doru
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."
I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.
Indeed. One that can render hundreds of edges.
Alexandre
Also an efficient spring layout with edges that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some point in time.
I did not know this one.
Me neither. Any idea where I can look at it? In your repository ?
Alexandre
HI Alexandre, what is the current status of Mondrian on Squeak? I've always been intrigued by Mondrian, what would be the best approach for getting it going on Squeak?
I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools. How hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I looked)?
- Chris
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre@bergel.eu wrote:
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are: - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way. - having a small core embeddable in your application - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts - having a better help system (à la ProfStef) - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2 - exporting as PDF - anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
Cheers, Alexandre
NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi Chris,
The core of Mondrian has no relationship with OB.
The rendering of Mondrian only depends on Canvas. By default, when you say "view open" a window with a canvas is created and the canvas is passed to Mondrian.
Cheers, Doru
On 3 Apr 2010, at 19:11, Chris Muller wrote:
HI Alexandre, what is the current status of Mondrian on Squeak? I've always been intrigued by Mondrian, what would be the best approach for getting it going on Squeak?
I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools. How hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I looked)?
- Chris
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre@bergel.eu wrote:
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this
is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.
Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
- having a small core embeddable in your application
- making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
- having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
- dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
- exporting as PDF
- anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
Cheers, Alexandre
NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
Hi Chris,
I haven't recently tried to install Mondrian on Squeak. If it does not work, no much should be missing I believe. There is nothing in Pharo which is a crucial requirement. If you wish to see Mondrian on Squeak, then I can help to make it work.
I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools. How hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I looked)?
As Doru said, there is no relationship between Mondrian and OB. Mondrian was dependend on OB some times ago principally for the text input lower pane. But not anymore. If you have any question on how to use Mondrian, please ask.
Cheers, Alexandre
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre@bergel.eu wrote:
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
- scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this
is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
- add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.
Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
- having a small core embeddable in your application
- making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
- having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
- dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
- exporting as PDF
- anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
Cheers, Alexandre
NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
This is excellent news, thank you..!
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre@bergel.eu wrote:
Hi Chris,
I haven't recently tried to install Mondrian on Squeak. If it does not work, no much should be missing I believe. There is nothing in Pharo which is a crucial requirement. If you wish to see Mondrian on Squeak, then I can help to make it work.
I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools. How hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I looked)?
As Doru said, there is no relationship between Mondrian and OB. Mondrian was dependend on OB some times ago principally for the text input lower pane. But not anymore. If you have any question on how to use Mondrian, please ask.
Cheers, Alexandre
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre@bergel.eu wrote:
Hi All,
Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today. Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are: - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way. - having a small core embeddable in your application - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts - having a better help system (à la ProfStef) - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2 - exporting as PDF - anti-aliasing
This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/ Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
Let's render our dream!
Cheers, Alexandre
NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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-
Alexandre Bergel -
Chris Muller -
Lukas Renggli -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba