Hi, is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

It would be great to have the class blueprint available for plain Pharo class. This should not be complicated. Creating a builder is indeed the way to do it. Alexandre > Le 28-08-2014 à 4:49, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : > > Hi, > > is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. > > > Uko > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

I do not see why you would create a builder for this. I think a builder is only useful when you want to customize something. Or would you like to customize something in the blueprint? Doru On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: It would be great to have the class blueprint available for plain Pharo class. This should not be complicated. Creating a builder is indeed the way to do it. Alexandre > Le 28-08-2014 à 4:49, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : > > Hi, > > is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. > > > Uko > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Hi, Exactly. A builder offers an API with which for the same input you can produce multiple outputs. If you can only produce one output then you probably have a script in your hand. On the other hand, if you do not place the script in the class of the input object, then you probably want to have a separate class for the visualization. In that case, it might still make sense to have this class be a subclass of builder. What do you think? Doru On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: If it is not a builder, then it is a simple script. My stake on this is that you never know whether you want to customize a view or not. Having a builder is also a way to compose with other visualization. Alexandre On Aug 29, 2014, at 2:31 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > I do not see why you would create a builder for this. I think a builder is only useful when you want to customize something. Or would you like to customize something in the blueprint? > > Doru > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > It would be great to have the class blueprint available for plain Pharo class. This should not be complicated. Creating a builder is indeed the way to do it. > > Alexandre > > > Le 28-08-2014 à 4:49, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : > > > > Hi, > > > > is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. > > > > > > Uko > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

I think we are not talking about the same thing. You seem to say that every visualization script should be a builder. I think this is not particularly useful. Or did I get something wrong? Doru On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; wrote: I think that we should stick to builders. Because you anyway have some questions open like should script create view or populate existing one and so on. If we create a builder, then potential users will work with familiar interface + will be able to combine your work with other visualisations and so on. I was really frustrated with Roassal 1 because everyone was creating his own thing, and then one builder returned a view, another one - view stack, and some of them required you to provide a view. Uko On 01 Sep 2014, at 06:51, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > Hi, > > Exactly. A builder offers an API with which for the same input you can produce multiple outputs. If you can only produce one output then you probably have a script in your hand. > > On the other hand, if you do not place the script in the class of the input object, then you probably want to have a separate class for the visualization. In that case, it might still make sense to have this class be a subclass of builder. What do you think? > > Doru > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > If it is not a builder, then it is a simple script. > My stake on this is that you never know whether you want to customize a view or not. > Having a builder is also a way to compose with other visualization. > > Alexandre > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 2:31 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > > > I do not see why you would create a builder for this. I think a builder is only useful when you want to customize something. Or would you like to customize something in the blueprint? > > > > Doru > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > > It would be great to have the class blueprint available for plain Pharo class. This should not be complicated. Creating a builder is indeed the way to do it. > > > > Alexandre > > > > > Le 28-08-2014 à 4:49, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. > > > > > > > > > Uko > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Moose-dev mailing list > > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Ok, but then it follows that any visualization that is now handled in a self-contained script should be a builder as well. This can well be, but this definition will probably lead us in a slightly different direction than where we are now. That is because we would need to make it very cheap to create a builder out of a script. Would anyone want to explore this? Doru On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; wrote: I think that Blueprint has a good reason to be a builder :), and if you want to make your thing reusable it’s reasonable to make a builder for it. (thou maybe I’m not very familiar with Roassal philosophy) Uko On 01 Sep 2014, at 11:23, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > I think we are not talking about the same thing. You seem to say that every visualization script should be a builder. I think this is not particularly useful. Or did I get something wrong? > > Doru > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > I think that we should stick to builders. > > Because you anyway have some questions open like should script create view or populate existing one and so on. If we create a builder, then potential users will work with familiar interface + will be able to combine your work with other visualisations and so on. I was really frustrated with Roassal 1 because everyone was creating his own thing, and then one builder returned a view, another one - view stack, and some of them required you to provide a view. > > Uko > > On 01 Sep 2014, at 06:51, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Exactly. A builder offers an API with which for the same input you can produce multiple outputs. If you can only produce one output then you probably have a script in your hand. >> >> On the other hand, if you do not place the script in the class of the input object, then you probably want to have a separate class for the visualization. In that case, it might still make sense to have this class be a subclass of builder. What do you think? >> >> Doru >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: >> If it is not a builder, then it is a simple script. >> My stake on this is that you never know whether you want to customize a view or not. >> Having a builder is also a way to compose with other visualization. >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On Aug 29, 2014, at 2:31 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: >> >> > I do not see why you would create a builder for this. I think a builder is only useful when you want to customize something. Or would you like to customize something in the blueprint? >> > >> > Doru >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: >> > It would be great to have the class blueprint available for plain Pharo class. This should not be complicated. Creating a builder is indeed the way to do it. >> > >> > Alexandre >> > >> > > Le 28-08-2014 à 4:49, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : >> > > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > is blueprint diagram only available in moose panel? Because I want to use it outside of Moose, so I wander if there is some Roassal builder for that. >> > > >> > > >> > > Uko >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Moose-dev mailing list >> > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Moose-dev mailing list >> > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > www.tudorgirba.com >> > >> > "Every thing has its own flow" >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Moose-dev mailing list >> > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Le 01-09-2014 à 5:08, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com&gt; a écrit : I was really frustrated with Roassal 1 because everyone was creating his own thing, and then one builder returned a view, another one - view stack, and some of them required you to provide a view.