Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Am 21.03.2012 um 07:41 schrieb Tudor Girba:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Hi,
I really would love to play and do something useful with it. But I don't find time to get used to it. Back then I started with Alexandre to import javascript into moose but I didn't find the needed time back then as well (hmmm, ugly pattern). I still would be very interested to do javascript imports in order to learn what moose can do and how javscript can be analyzed.
Norbert
Hi, A student of mine worked on a petit javascript parser. The tags covered are not that much but you might like to take a look. The project is called PetitJSParser
http://www.squeaksource.com/@RFTiNHNPPC2NVeeI/kidwMQO9
Cheers, Fabrizio
2012/3/21 Norbert Hartl norbert@hartl.name
Am 21.03.2012 um 07:41 schrieb Tudor Girba:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for
software analysis, for other kinds of analysis.
Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Hi,
I really would love to play and do something useful with it. But I don't find time to get used to it. Back then I started with Alexandre to import javascript into moose but I didn't find the needed time back then as well (hmmm, ugly pattern). I still would be very interested to do javascript imports in order to learn what moose can do and how javscript can be analyzed.
Norbert _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Sorry, It should work out of the box on the latest moose image.
Cheers, Fabrizio
2012/3/21 Fabrizio Perin fabrizio.perin@gmail.com
Hi, A student of mine worked on a petit javascript parser. The tags covered are not that much but you might like to take a look. The project is called PetitJSParser
http://www.squeaksource.com/@RFTiNHNPPC2NVeeI/kidwMQO9
Cheers, Fabrizio
2012/3/21 Norbert Hartl norbert@hartl.name
Am 21.03.2012 um 07:41 schrieb Tudor Girba:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for
software analysis, for other kinds of analysis.
Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Hi,
I really would love to play and do something useful with it. But I don't find time to get used to it. Back then I started with Alexandre to import javascript into moose but I didn't find the needed time back then as well (hmmm, ugly pattern). I still would be very interested to do javascript imports in order to learn what moose can do and how javscript can be analyzed.
Norbert _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Am 21.03.2012 um 11:35 schrieb Fabrizio Perin:
Sorry, It should work out of the box on the latest moose image.
Great. Now I will definitely have look within the coming weeks. :)
Norbert
2012/3/21 Fabrizio Perin fabrizio.perin@gmail.com Hi, A student of mine worked on a petit javascript parser. The tags covered are not that much but you might like to take a look. The project is called PetitJSParser
http://www.squeaksource.com/@RFTiNHNPPC2NVeeI/kidwMQO9
Cheers, Fabrizio
2012/3/21 Norbert Hartl norbert@hartl.name
Am 21.03.2012 um 07:41 schrieb Tudor Girba:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Hi,
I really would love to play and do something useful with it. But I don't find time to get used to it. Back then I started with Alexandre to import javascript into moose but I didn't find the needed time back then as well (hmmm, ugly pattern). I still would be very interested to do javascript imports in order to learn what moose can do and how javscript can be analyzed.
Norbert _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi,
I renew my request. Please take 2 minutes to list(even if you think this is superfluous) if and how you are using something Moose-related. For example, Fabrizio, are you using Moose? :)
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
I start.
Currently, besides developing Moose, I am using it in commercial settings inside CompuGroup Medical Schweiz (the company where I work at the moment). For example, we use it for running continuous checks against Java source code and a proprietary language, and we use it to drive various assessments and to build analysis tools.
In general, I am using Moose to promote humane assessment: http://humane-assessment.com
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
I renew my request. Please take 2 minutes to list(even if you think this is superfluous) if and how you are using something Moose-related. For example, Fabrizio, are you using Moose? :)
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
For example, Fabrizio, are you using Moose? :)
Yes I do. I use Moose regularly for my research work. I worked directly or indirectly on the development of parsers for SQL, JSP, PHP and git and svn blame files. All these parsers are based on PetitParser. All these extractors are used to feed Models based on the moose model.
All the analyses I normally do in Moose involve the usage of frameworks like Arki, Glamour, Mondrian and Eyesee.
I also use Moose to do data analyses. I'm working on a project were I use Moose to have statistics on code clones reports.
I use automoose to automatically build Moose images with all my projects using a Jenkins server.
Finally, I collaborate with industrial partner and I use Moose to analyze huge industrial applications.
Cheers, Fabrizio
On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:41 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
Yes :)
If yes, could you let us know what that something is?
Doing software analysis. Research and commercially (i hope)
It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi, Currently I using Moose to detect and prioritize design flaws. Cheers, Santiago
2012/3/21 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:41 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
Yes :)
If yes, could you let us know what that something is?
Doing software analysis. Research and commercially (i hope)
It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for
software analysis, for other kinds of analysis.
Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of
reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
On 21 mrt 2012, at 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Are you using Moose for something?
Diego and I use Moose for data conversion from an old Cobol system to a modern ERP system. We use glamour, mondrian, and eyesee to create a 'daily visualization'. The fast feedback it allows is crucial for us to keep the customer "steering" the conversion. We can show her what we do and do not understand, and it allows her to prioritize.
We build a custom parser for the parts of the cobol files we were interested in. In hindsight, using petitparser for that would have been a better decision. We added a simple seaside application to allow multiple people to make corrections to the data.
Stephan Eggermont
I have used Moose in my research work.
Some months ago we created a dedicated tool to the visual exploration and analysis of bugs (http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00668397). It uses Famix, Hismo, Glamour, Mondrian and EyeSee (http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00668397).
More recently I have worked in a simple tool to visualize the history of lines in method histories (that can be provided by Hismo or Ring History). It uses Glamaur and Mondrian.
I have also implemented a first version for Kiviat diagrams in EyeSee.
So Moose is always around.. :)
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Stephan Eggermont stephan@stack.nl wrote:
On 21 mrt 2012, at 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Are you using Moose for something?
Diego and I use Moose for data conversion from an old Cobol system to a modern ERP system. We use glamour, mondrian, and eyesee to create a 'daily visualization'. The fast feedback it allows is crucial for us to keep the customer "steering" the conversion. We can show her what we do and do not understand, and it allows her to prioritize.
We build a custom parser for the parts of the cobol files we were interested in. In hindsight, using petitparser for that would have been a better decision. We added a simple seaside application to allow multiple people to make corrections to the data.
Stephan Eggermont _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Diego
would it be possible to see one of your daily visualization? Just curious to see how visualization can help people understanding what we are doing.
Stef On Mar 21, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:
On 21 mrt 2012, at 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Are you using Moose for something?
Diego and I use Moose for data conversion from an old Cobol system to a modern ERP system. We use glamour, mondrian, and eyesee to create a 'daily visualization'. The fast feedback it allows is crucial for us to keep the customer "steering" the conversion. We can show her what we do and do not understand, and it allows her to prioritize.
We build a custom parser for the parts of the cobol files we were interested in. In hindsight, using petitparser for that would have been a better decision. We added a simple seaside application to allow multiple people to make corrections to the data.
Stephan Eggermont _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi Doru!
We used Moose in the Software Design and Evolution lecture at the University of Bern. I maintain and develop Softwarenaut, the architecture recovery prototype tool that I built on top of Moose during my PhD. I have one master student that is doing research on collaboration in architecture recovery and monitoring.
Cheers, M.
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
Diego
would it be possible to see one of your daily visualization? Just curious to see how visualization can help people understanding what we are doing.
Stef On Mar 21, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:
On 21 mrt 2012, at 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Are you using Moose for something?
Diego and I use Moose for data conversion from an old Cobol system to a modern ERP system. We use glamour, mondrian, and eyesee to create a 'daily visualization'. The fast feedback it allows is crucial
for
us to keep the customer "steering" the conversion. We can show her what we do and do not understand, and it allows her to prioritize.
We build a custom parser for the parts of the cobol files we were
interested
in. In hindsight, using petitparser for that would have been a better
decision.
We added a simple seaside application to allow multiple people to make corrections to the data.
Stephan Eggermont _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
using for research. We have a small presentation of Moose with a slide saying that: 1- have an idea 2- implement it in 5min. with moose 3- publish the results
The 5 min. are a bit understated, but this is what we do. In my case, mainly metrics computation
nicolas
On 21/03/12 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
My main tasks with moose:
Tools for dedicated tasks in software analysis using built-in engines in Moose (Glamour, Mondrian, Arki) for different team in INRIA-Lille..
Usman
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Nicolas Anquetil <Nicolas.Anquetil@inria.fr
wrote:
using for research. We have a small presentation of Moose with a slide saying that: 1- have an idea 2- implement it in 5min. with moose 3- publish the results
The 5 min. are a bit understated, but this is what we do. In my case, mainly metrics computation
nicolas
On 21/03/12 07:41, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
______________________________**_________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/**mailman/listinfo/moose-devhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
______________________________**_________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/**mailman/listinfo/moose-devhttps://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Hi!
Yes, we are using moose at the university of chile. Moose is central in a lecture I give on software quality during one semester.
We research with moose. Currently we are improving dependencies of a model by running unit tests.
I am principally developing and maintening Mondrian. A new visualization engine, called Roassal, will be soon released. roassal supports better interactions.
Moose is also the core of a number of industrial proposals I submitted. We will see how it goes...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 21 mars 2012 à 01:41, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Have you ever consider doing a screencast, in order to explain how do you those tools?
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.comwrote:
Hi!
Yes, we are using moose at the university of chile. Moose is central in a lecture I give on software quality during one semester.
We research with moose. Currently we are improving dependencies of a model by running unit tests.
I am principally developing and maintening Mondrian. A new visualization engine, called Roassal, will be soon released. roassal supports better interactions.
Moose is also the core of a number of industrial proposals I submitted. We will see how it goes...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 21 mars 2012 à 01:41, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for
software analysis, for other kinds of analysis.
Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of
reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
I am not sure what tools are you referring to, but you can find some Moose demos here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/resources/demos
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras vonbecmann@gmail.com wrote:
Have you ever consider doing a screencast, in order to explain how do you those tools?
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote:
Hi!
Yes, we are using moose at the university of chile. Moose is central in a lecture I give on software quality during one semester.
We research with moose. Currently we are improving dependencies of a model by running unit tests.
I am principally developing and maintening Mondrian. A new visualization engine, called Roassal, will be soon released. roassal supports better interactions.
Moose is also the core of a number of industrial proposals I submitted. We will see how it goes...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 21 mars 2012 à 01:41, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
No screencast so far. There is a chapter book however. I am only with my iphone now, so looking for the url is not easy . Roassal will also come with a fair amount of documentation.
Alexandre
Le 21 mars 2012 à 09:10, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras vonbecmann@gmail.com a écrit :
Have you ever consider doing a screencast, in order to explain how do you those tools?
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.bergel@me.com wrote: Hi!
Yes, we are using moose at the university of chile. Moose is central in a lecture I give on software quality during one semester.
We research with moose. Currently we are improving dependencies of a model by running unit tests.
I am principally developing and maintening Mondrian. A new visualization engine, called Roassal, will be soon released. roassal supports better interactions.
Moose is also the core of a number of industrial proposals I submitted. We will see how it goes...
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 21 mars 2012 à 01:41, Tudor Girba tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Sounds really interesting. I like the idea to model something totally different than software in Moose Let us know how it goes.
For the thesis of my Master of Engineering Technology (Electric Power Systems) I am using Moose to implement the IEC 61970 Common Information Model [1] as part of the emerging requirements for Electric Smart Grids. This is the international standard for the exchange of electric power model information between power utilities to facilitate co-ordinated operations across the interconnected electric power network. The standards committee overseeing IEC 61970 subscribes to the OMG Model Driven Architecture and maintains the standard as a UML model consisting of about 800 classes. I am hoping to produce a tool useful for exploring this model and as well as providing a basis for building electric power applications.
I was attracted to implementing this using the Connectors application on Squeak, and was then drawn to Pharo for its more business focus, and now to Moose for its integration of the applications above Pharo that I have gradually discovered to be most useful - which for me so far are the trifecta of Glamour, Magritte and Mondrian. I had been trying to make use the FAME meta-model stuff but the UML related stuff appears to have been dropped and I could not determine a path forward to using it as I required.
you can describe all your meta model with fame and it is the basis to save load model and others.
Stef
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Information_Model_%28electricity%29 [2] http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/upload/smartgrid_interoperabilit...
This project arose to fill a need for tools to work with the emerging standards for the electric power industry. As an overview of the general need in this area, I have pulled some extracts from [2]...
"Under the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is assigned the “primary responsibility to coordinate development of a framework that includes protocols and model standards for information management to achieve interoperability of Smart Grid devices and systems…” There is an urgent need to establish protocols and standards for the Smart Grid. In May 2009, U.S. Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke and U.S. Secretary of Energy Steven Chu chaired a meeting of nearly 70 executives from the power, information technology, and other industries at which these executives expressed their organizations’ commitment to support the plan established by NIST to meet its EISA responsibility. "
"This document [2] was drafted through an open public process that engaged the broad spectrum of Smart Grid stakeholder communities and the general public. Input was provided through three public workshops, in April, May and August 2009, in which more than 1,500 individuals representing hundreds of organizations participated. Through the NIST workshops, NIST determined that many potentially useful standards will require revision or enhancement before they can be implemented to address Smart Grid requirements. In addition, stakeholders identified gaps requiring entirely new standards to be developed. In all, a total of 70 such gaps or related issues were identified. Of these, NIST selected 15 for which resolution is most urgently needed to support one or more of the Smart Grid priority areas." [BTC: Half of these Priority Action Plans refer to the IEC 61850, 61970, 61968 standards of IEC Technical Committee 57. ] <moz-screenshot-14.jpg>
"A recent forecast projects that the U.S. market for Smart Grid-related equipment, devices, information and communication technologies, and other hardware, software, and services will double between 2009 and 2014—to nearly $43 billion. Over the same span, the global market is projected to grow to more than $171 billion, an increase of almost 150 percent."
regards, Ben
Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Are you using Moose for something?
If yes, could you let us know what that something is? It can be research, play, commercial, short term, long term, for software analysis, for other kinds of analysis. Or maybe you are using only some part of it all. Anything would do.
Please take 2 minutes to reply.
Cheers, Doru
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev