27 Jun
2014
27 Jun
'14
11:13 p.m.
It depends if Moose is an infrastructure to build tools or an ide to do
analyses.
For the second one I can understand that GT is part of the "Moose" now
we when we sell tools to clients
GT is simply out!
So we will maintain a Moose infrastructure configuration because this is
too important for us.
Stef
On 27/6/14 14:56, Diego Lont wrote:
Hi all,
Just some pro's and con's of the GT Toolkit from a commercial point of
view:
_Pro:_
The toolkit is way ahead of the other tools.
The toolkit is well maintained. Bugs are fixed pretty quick, once located.
The tools can be expanded quite easily. This is a key advantage, and
now causes more people to work on the tools. And we need more people
working on the development environment ...
_Con:_
GTDebugger has been unstable (had unstable features) a few time the
last couple of months. One can notice there is development going on here.
The tools, especially the debugger, needs a bit getting used to.
To be honest, this is not much different from Pharo itself. One can
notice there is development going on, and from time to time something
critical breaks. Since the debugger, inspector and system browser are
such a key tools, one probably notices this a bit faster when it
concerns one of these tools.
But I consider that development is going on in those key areas a good
thing. I must admit that I reverted to pharo for the moment, but I
plan on going back once the moose tools are a bit more stable again.
So yes, I agree with Doru that these tools should be a default part of
moose. This is the only way to get enough users for these tools. And I
do not want to get stuck with the old things, that maybe work
reliable, but do not improve any more.
Diego
On 26 Jun 2014, at 16:58, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com
<mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
I am not convinced you read the whole mail :).
So, just to make sure,
here is the snippet for you again (which is how things are done in
plain Pharo code - no Moose magic involved):
EyeInspector registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
SpecDebugger registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
Workspace registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
Doru
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:54 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr
<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
So you mean that we cannot have our old tools?
Ok now I know what I have to do.
Stef
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At this moment, GT primarily means:
- Playground
- Inspector
- Debugger
(Metaceller was never a subject to debate, so I will not address
it here)
The Coder will likely follow but first in a different format
than one expects. Namely, it will appear first as a code editor
inside the inspector.
GT is neither a whim, nor is it experimental. GT is a long term
project. For example, the inspector was incubated for more than
4 years, and it is time to work with it and evolve it based on
real-life experience. It is true that sometimes it is still
moving but that is because it is alive :). Yet, the
functionality is there, and if there are issues they should be
treated as such: report them and they will be fixed.
Now, the main reason why GT is not optional for the main Moose
distribution is that, as I explained one year ago at the
MooseDay, Moose will provide the IDE. First, we need a new IDE
in Pharo and I think we have cool set of concepts and the Moose
engines are perfect for it. Second, when analyzing data from XML
structures, plain files, DB, or even Pharo objects, the
Inspector is cornerstone. And so is the Playground. As for the
Debugger, I will remind you that it comes with working dedicated
debuggers for PetitParser, Glamour, and Announcements. These
alone make it worth the effort when developing Moose-based
solutions.
Not to mention that we are building something that is
ridiculously small for the power it harnesses. We should not
stop this because we find a couple of bugs along the way.
For all these reasons, GT is here to stay.
Cheers,
Doru
p.s. Btw, the development of GT is not reserved to a closed
circle. We would like to invite anyone interested in
participating in the development of GT.
p.p.s. Of course, because this system is properly engineered, it
can be safely replaced by the default tools:
EyeInspector registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
SpecDebugger registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
Workspace registerToolsOn: Smalltalk tools.
--
www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
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--
www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
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