[Moose-dev] Re: OverviewPyramid smalltalk thresholds?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Tudor Girba < tudor(a)tudorgirba.com wrote: yep ... you are right ok I will look into that... for now I have an MonticelloImporter that works .... well almost ... ;) > Cheers, > Doru > On 24 Oct 2011, at 23:47, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > > That's cool ... from my perspective I think a metacello importer > > will do a better job... since it is closer to the idea of a > > project > > than the monticello repositories which sometimes are very fine > > grained. > > > So if you manage to get a working version of the metacello > > importer > > please let me know. Meanwhile I'll try to figure this out using > > the > > monticello importer - importing either the whole repository or > > just > > selected packages following a handcrafted, subjective heuristic > > ;) > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel < > > alexandre.bergel(a)me.com > wrote: > > I am currently working on a metacello importer. I have been slow > > on > > this due to numerous deadlines. Having someone bothering me > > regularly will definitely help reshuffling my todo list :-) > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > Le 24 oct. 2011 à 17:58, Tudor Girba < tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > a > > écrit : > > > > Hi Ciprian, > > > > > That is precisely what I had in mind when I said that we need > > > someone to do it :). > > > > > For a list of projects, I would indeed do it like Alex is > > > saying: > > > by traversing projects from squeaksource. One idea is to use > > > the > > > MonticelloImporter to do it from Moose. The only thing would > > > be > > > to > > > implement the relevant metrics for this importer. > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > On 24 Oct 2011, at 22:47, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > > > > >> Hi Doru, > > >> > > >> Thank you for your answer... It's too bad we don't have these > > >> figures... What do you say about creating a list of projects > > >> that > > >> could be used to create such a baseline. I don't really have > > >> a > > >> precise idea about the number of projects that we might need > > >> to > > >> compute this thing ... but I think starting such a list might > > >> be > > >> a good idea. And then based on that we can eventually try to > > >> get > > >> the results. > > >> > > >> In the Book: Object-oriented Metrics in Practice the authors > > >> used > > >> 45 java and 37 c++ systems to get these numbers ... so I > > >> think > > >> we > > >> have to find at least 30 projects maybe. > > >> > > >> I am not promising anything but maybe I will find some time > > >> over > > >> the next few weeks that I can dedicate to doing this. > > >> > > >> What do you guys say? > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Tudor Girba < > > >> tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > wrote: > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> We do not have those thresholds for Smalltalk, yet. It would > > >> be > > >> interesting to get them, though. We only need someone to do > > >> it > > >> :) > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Doru > > >> > > >> On 24 Oct 2011, at 22:03, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > > >> > > >>> Thanks for your prompt answer. > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Alexandre Bergel < > > >>> alexandre.bergel(a)me.com > wrote: > > >>> No idea about the threshold. I find system complexity and > > >>> class > > >>> blueprint quite useful to get a first impression of a > > >>> system. > > >>> I > > >>> then usually visualize the dependencies. > > >>> If I really want to understand the system, then writing unit > > >>> tests will do the thing. > > >>> > > >>> I completely agree with you on these points... > > >>> but from my point of view I think that the overviewpyramid > > >>> can > > >>> be a very good visualisation > > >>> to quickly present your system's complexity to others... > > >>> especially during a presentation... > > >>> and then you can freely dive into more detailed aspect with > > >>> the > > >>> system complexity and > > >>> class blueprint - to show specific points. However, without > > >>> a > > >>> statistically significant smalltalk baseline (the threshold) > > >>> the pyramid doesn't convey much information especially to an > > >>> external viewer... > > >>> > > >>> so my point is, since we have the java and c++ cases, why > > >>> not > > >>> get some smalltalk (or maybe pharo-specific) > > >>> numbers also - especially since Moose is implemented in > > >>> smalltalk. > > >>> > > >>> regards, > > >>> ciprian > > >>> > > >>> Alexandre > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 24 Oct 2011, at 16:06, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi all, > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm new to using moose for analyzing a rather large > > >>>> smalltalk > > >>>> project developed during the last 16-17 years. > > >>>> I hope that using Moose framework will give positive > > >>>> insights > > >>>> on the hot-spots of the system in order to improve its > > >>>> structure, and make it more maintainable. > > >>>> The project name is Madeo ( > > >>>> http://stiff.univ-brest.fr/BINIOU/MADEO ) a FPGA > > >>>> design-automation toolkit developed mainly by one of my PhD > > >>>> supervisors (Loic Lagadec). > > >>>> > > >>>> To start the evaluation I believe that the overview pyramid > > >>>> is > > >>>> a very good starting point in order to get a generic idea > > >>>> about > > >>>> the system. > > >>>> However, I was not able to find any smalltalk threshold > > >>>> values > > >>>> in the moose image. > > >>>> > > >>>> So my question is if there is somebody having some idea > > >>>> about > > >>>> the > > >>>> smalltalk threshold values for the OverviewPyramid. > > >>>> > > >>>> If yes, could you provide me these figures, and eventually > > >>>> point me to a scientific paper presenting these results. > > >>>> If not, I'm willing to try to get these figures myself... > > >>>> however I don't really know which smalltalk projects I > > >>>> could > > >>>> use to get good results. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thank you very much for your attention. > > >>>> > > >>>> Best wishes, > > >>>> -- > > >>>> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > > >>>> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > > >>>> University of Brest > > >>>> > > >>>> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > > >>>> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > > >>>> www.teodorov.ro > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Moose-dev mailing list > > >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Moose-dev mailing list > > >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > > >>> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > > >>> University of Brest > > >>> > > >>> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > > >>> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > > >>> www.teodorov.ro > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Moose-dev mailing list > > >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > >> > > >> -- > > >> www.tudorgirba.com > > >> > > >> "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to > > >> know > > >> her." > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Moose-dev mailing list > > >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > > >> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > > >> University of Brest > > >> > > >> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > > >> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > > >> www.teodorov.ro > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Moose-dev mailing list > > >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > "What we can governs what we wish." > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Moose-dev mailing list > > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > -- > > PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > > Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > > University of Brest > > > phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > > mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > > www.teodorov.ro > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 University of Brest phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr www.teodorov.ro