[Moose-dev] Re: OverviewPyramid smalltalk thresholds?

Hi, Going purely the Metacello way is less proper for your purpose because you are looking for a statistics, and due to project dependencies, you will get to measure common projects multiple times.

However, if you have a Metacello configuration, you can easily obtain the packages involved and their respective repositories. You can then use this information with the Monticello importer. At least theoretically :) ok I will look into that... for now I have an MonticelloImporter that

Cheers, Doru On 24 Oct 2011, at 23:47, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > That's cool ... from my perspective I think a metacello importer will do a better job... since it is closer to the idea of a project than the monticello repositories which sometimes are very fine grained. > > So if you manage to get a working version of the metacello importer please let me know. Meanwhile I'll try to figure this out using the monticello importer - importing either the whole repository or just selected packages following a handcrafted, subjective heuristic ;) > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > I am currently working on a metacello importer. I have been slow on this due to numerous deadlines. Having someone bothering me regularly will definitely help reshuffling my todo list :-) > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > Le 24 oct. 2011 à 17:58, Tudor Girba &lt;tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; a écrit : > > > Hi Ciprian, > > > > That is precisely what I had in mind when I said that we need someone to do it :). > > > > For a list of projects, I would indeed do it like Alex is saying: by traversing projects from squeaksource. One idea is to use the MonticelloImporter to do it from Moose. The only thing would be to implement the relevant metrics for this importer. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > On 24 Oct 2011, at 22:47, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > > > >> Hi Doru, > >> > >> Thank you for your answer... It's too bad we don't have these figures... What do you say about creating a list of projects that could be used to create such a baseline. I don't really have a precise idea about the number of projects that we might need to compute this thing ... but I think starting such a list might be a good idea. And then based on that we can eventually try to get the results. > >> > >> In the Book: Object-oriented Metrics in Practice the authors used 45 java and 37 c++ systems to get these numbers ... so I think we have to find at least 30 projects maybe. > >> > >> I am not promising anything but maybe I will find some time over the next few weeks that I can dedicate to doing this. > >> > >> What do you guys say? > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Tudor Girba < tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> We do not have those thresholds for Smalltalk, yet. It would be interesting to get them, though. We only need someone to do it :) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Doru > >> > >> On 24 Oct 2011, at 22:03, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for your prompt answer. > >>> > >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel(a)me.com&gt; wrote: > >>> No idea about the threshold. I find system complexity and class blueprint quite useful to get a first impression of a system. I then usually visualize the dependencies. > >>> If I really want to understand the system, then writing unit tests will do the thing. > >>> > >>> I completely agree with you on these points... > >>> but from my point of view I think that the overviewpyramid can be a very good visualisation > >>> to quickly present your system's complexity to others... especially during a presentation... > >>> and then you can freely dive into more detailed aspect with the system complexity and > >>> class blueprint - to show specific points. However, without a statistically significant smalltalk baseline (the threshold) > >>> the pyramid doesn't convey much information especially to an external viewer... > >>> > >>> so my point is, since we have the java and c++ cases, why not get some smalltalk (or maybe pharo-specific) > >>> numbers also - especially since Moose is implemented in smalltalk. > >>> > >>> regards, > >>> ciprian > >>> > >>> Alexandre > >>> > >>> > >>> On 24 Oct 2011, at 16:06, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I'm new to using moose for analyzing a rather large smalltalk project developed during the last 16-17 years. > >>>> I hope that using Moose framework will give positive insights on the hot-spots of the system in order to improve its structure, and make it more maintainable. > >>>> The project name is Madeo ( http://stiff.univ-brest.fr/BINIOU/MADEO) a FPGA design-automation toolkit developed mainly by one of my PhD supervisors (Loic Lagadec). > >>>> > >>>> To start the evaluation I believe that the overview pyramid is a very good starting point in order to get a generic idea about the system. > >>>> However, I was not able to find any smalltalk threshold values in the moose image. > >>>> > >>>> So my question is if there is somebody having some idea about the > >>>> smalltalk threshold values for the OverviewPyramid. > >>>> > >>>> If yes, could you provide me these figures, and eventually point me to a scientific paper presenting these results. > >>>> If not, I'm willing to try to get these figures myself... however I don't really know which smalltalk projects I could use to get good results. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you very much for your attention. > >>>> > >>>> Best wishes, > >>>> -- > >>>> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > >>>> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > >>>> University of Brest > >>>> > >>>> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > >>>> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > >>>> www.teodorov.ro > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Moose-dev mailing list > >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > >>> > >>> -- > >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Moose-dev mailing list > >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > >>> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > >>> University of Brest > >>> > >>> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > >>> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > >>> www.teodorov.ro > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Moose-dev mailing list > >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > >> > >> -- > >> www.tudorgirba.com > >> > >> "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Moose-dev mailing list > >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > >> Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > >> University of Brest > >> > >> phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > >> mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > >> www.teodorov.ro > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Moose-dev mailing list > >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "What we can governs what we wish." > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > PhDc Ciprian TEODOROV > Lab-STICC/AS CNRS UMR 3192 > University of Brest > > phone: (+33)(0) 6 08 54 73 48 > mail: ciprian.teodorov(a)univ-brest.fr > www.teodorov.ro > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Quality cannot be an afterthought." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev