Hi,
This is an important discussion that we need to have every now and then.
I work on solving concrete software problems all day long and I have yet to see a system for which I do not need to reason about XML, JSON or CSV (typically it's all of them). It's often that I find myself working on these data formats than on actual code. But, again this is just my personal experience.
Moose is targeted to software developers to help them deal with things around their software systems and around data. I announced two years ago that Moose will not center itself around FAMIX only, but go towards other kinds of data. Essentially, Moose should be a single-stop-tool that developers would want to have around. It should replace grep, Excel when used for developer data and other kinds of data inspectors (such as JSON).
FAMIX is relevant, but not at all the most important source of value we can reach with Moose. Interestingly, I have more success getting people to look into Moose when it's about files or the DB than when it's about code only.
Cheers, Doru
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:34 PM, stepharo stepharo@free.fr wrote:
Reading CSV is a basic feature in R for reading data. Moose/ Roassal / GT combo should have that out of the box.
It depends what is the goal of Moose is. I worked 16 years with Moose and I never ever needed CSV to analysis languages. Now if I would need it then it takes me less than a min to load it. I maintain also XMLWriter, XMLReader (nice that monty really pushed there) and again I would load it when I need it. Less than a minute to load.
For me Moose can still focus on meta modeling and we could have "agile visualization" but for that we do not need FAME, FAMIX and all the Moose related business.
What I was suggesting to alex I told him more than a year ago was: Build an image with Roassal CSV JSON XML + some math packages
No need to do that in the Moose Image: no need to have DSM, FCA, Metrics, FAME, MooseModel.
Stef
Phil Le 2 mars 2015 12:34, "Tudor Girba" tudor@tudorgirba.com a écrit :
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 9:08 AM, stepharo stepharo@free.fr wrote:
Guys
Do not do that. You can load them in one click. Moose is already bloated.
Each time I try to make moose reloading correctly
I have to fight with dependencies badly expressed.
So do I. But, that is because we do not have proper tool support for sanitizing configurations. Seeing the issue when we have small and modular dependencies is a symptom, not a cause. We have to build proper analysis tools. I am actually upset at myself for not having done that already. I started with the support in the inspector for easier browsing, but we need more.
First, I would want to try to achieve to move all packages from ConfigurationOfMoose into Units and make ConfigurationOfMoose be an Assembly. Then, I would like to reach the state in which one command to be able to trigger a full Moose release including nested configurations. Once we have that, we are in a manageable situation.
Alex if you need CSV and JSON just load them.
It's not just Alex. I needed that quite regularly, too, but that does not mean anything either. I would rather want to look at the problem from a principle point of view.
Moose is a distribution for data analysis, and having support for basic data formats is a basic requirement for such a platform. There are other components that are less needed, such as Magritte (which is used only in Metanool and could be made simpler) or even the PharoImporter which is likely not used in many places.
I do agree that Moose can slim down, but keep this in mind: the lines of code of Moose remained basically constant since 4 years (around 180k) even though the functionality increased dramatically. That is a good sign, and I think we can do more to keep things slim but powerful.
The problem is that you prefer to let us manage dependency else.
I really do not like that. I wrote a full chapter and it is working. To create a configuration it takes less than 5 min. So if you have a project just create a configuration and you get done.
I really think that going that road companies like synectique will simply have to fork (in fact they probably already have) and we will all lose.
Synectique chooses to play an opaque game, which is Ok. I have no access either to the ways decisions are being made inside or even to the needs the company has. And I won't spend much time guessing either.
You see when one guy is telling me that Group is not well done because
it uses too much nil or whatever and that I encourage the guy to fix and offer it to moose then if this guy is coding in another "branch" then we all lose.
Unfortunately, I actually do not see. These kind of dialogues are held behind close doors and we should not guide an open-source project by wishes that are never expressed.
Cheers, Doru
Stef
Le 27/2/15 23:18, Tudor Girba a écrit :
Yes, we should add those as well to the main Moose distribution.
Doru
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
… if we have XML, why not CSV and JSON? This is all wide-spread standard
Alexandre
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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