[Moose-dev] Re: dropping eyesee

Hi Doru, I can certainly give you some details. We have a number of internal services that handle a varying amount of load each month. We are concerned with keeping the services performing at an optimal level, and so need a way to track trending of the performance. We also noted in the past there there was a correspondence between volume of requests and response time, and so wanted to track that correlation as well. So, I periodically gathered this data, built charts on the data with commentary, and published it internally to relevant folks. I had set up an older process where I gathered all of this data and sucked it into Excel, manipulated it, and made acceptable graphs to look at the data in a glance. That is, until the latest Office upgrade, where I couldn't figure out how to combine graph types on a chart after several days of trying. I took this as an opportunity to explore eyesee (already being familiar with smalltalk) to see if I could get what I wanted. Turned out the answer was yes, and more that that besides. Here is an example: <image.png> the bars are the volumes for the various service provider nodes (how much each is providing), the lines are response time (color relates to two). The thick black line is the overall average response time - over time. This chart is a combination of 9 separate sub-charts. It probably won't win any prizes for attractiveness, but I certainly find it useful. I will not be moving this off to the new GraphET2 - it works just fine as-is. That said, I expect any new requirements I have for charting, I will utilize GraphET2 and provide feedback/request (if needed). On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Tudor Girba &lt;tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: Hi Chris, It is great to hear that you are using Moose to serve a larger audience. Could you give us details about your use case? Thanks for raising this issue. Moose is indeed a platform for productive developers, and it will remain so. It is precisely because we want to keep our tools "well conceived" that we need to drop things along the way. EyeSee was started 7 years ago, and at least in the past years it did not see any significant development. A similar story happened with Mondrian (first built in 2005 and dropped last year) and the same will happen with Roassal (to be replaced by Roassal2). An interesting thing to notice is that even after so many hundred man years of effort, Moose still has only 200k lines of code (and it is about 50k too large right now). This quite remarkable if you think about how the capabilities increased dramatically over the last years. The only way we can reach this is by continuously reinventing the core parts to build slimmer and more expressive models. It is for this reason that people building things on top should raise their voice every time they think an analysis is not elegant or not concise enough. I know this takes energy, but Moose has the ambitious goal of redefine development and analysis tools and we have to focus on that goal. It might sound bombastic but I am confident that we are approaching a tipping point. We just have to keep pushing. Cheers, Doru On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Chris Cunningham &lt;cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi. On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 5:01 AM, Tudor Girba &lt;tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: I think not yet. However, the EyeSee code is not used anywhere in Moose. I would like to point out that even if a package isn't used in the core of Moose, that doesn't mean your users don't use the package. I have approached Moose more as a package of well conceived tools, and use them as needed. EyeSee is one of those that I've used in the past (and still use, in fact, monthly) to build performance reports for distribution to a wide audience. It uses charts made up of multiple bar and line graphs to give an overview of aspect of our poerfomrance, and then I externalize it to a PDF (with Artefact). On the other hand, this is based on a Moose image a couple of releases ago, and I'm not likely to upgrade it any time soon, so removing it (for me) will not be an issue. As you pointed out, I could just reload it if I needed too. -cbc You can still load it in your projects if it offers things GraphET does not yet provide. Doru On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Usman Bhatti &lt;usman.bhatti(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Tudor Girba &lt;tudor(a)tudorgirba.com&gt; wrote: Hi, I removed EyeSee from the configuration of Moose. Do we have Pie chart and Kiviat in GraphEt? Because these are essential for charting. https://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/detail?id=1058&q=kivi… You can still load it separately. Next will be to drop GraphET and only focus on GraphET2 :) Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev