Hi,
I take issue with "hacking" in relation to Glamour / Mondrian :)). I think many problems come from the point of view through which these tools are meant to be built.
If you will try to build a regular user interface with Glamour, it will probably be very costly. If, on the other hand, you successfully map your problem, and not the tool you have a priori in mind, on the mechanisms of Glamour, then you get productive.
For example, the code of DSM does not work well with Mondrian because the abstractions of Mondrian are not quite suitable for what DSM wanted to get (e.g., a table). So, the code is not elegant. What would be needed is a new abstraction in which this code can look nice. This abstraction is probably offered by EyeSee now.
The same with Glamour. Glamour is good for some things, and not so good for others. For example, it is not that good for building user interfaces with side-effects. On the other hand, it is possible to build a new kind of implicit browser that does provide the mechanism you need to describe your requirement.
All in all, it depends :).
Cheers, Doru
On 5 May 2011, at 22:45, Simon Denier wrote:
Well maybe it's true that Mondrian/Glamour make it easy to hack some tools which are not so easy to build cleanly with objects. I never finished (or have yet to finish) the clean implementation of Package Blueprints, it's not easy to find the right balance of responsibility between objects.
On 5 mai 2011, at 21:19, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
On 5 May 2011, at 20:38, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
On May 5, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
I agree. But the very nice things, is to see the flow of the browser in only one method.
I can tell you don't do that! This is my main point against Glamour. You want object and not script programming.
This is not an issue and it actually never was. If you take a look, you will see that most browsers have their own class now and multiple small methods inside.
Cheers, Doru
In OB, that was not the case. No idea what get refreshed when you click on a node. You had to go on the definition of a node to see whether it does a refresh, and then, you had to check who has subscribed to the announcement.
It is true that people have tendency to write script in Mondrian and Glamour in a long method since these frameworks requires you to write blocks instead of creating classes. However, nothing prevent one from modularizing scripts.
well..... I will not comment on that. Do not write long methods.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 5 May 2011, at 01:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Alex and other glamour users
what is really important is that you do not write a long single method but a lot of little ones so that your code looks like normal smalltalk and not like a class = a script. I think that this is important for the future of glamour.
stef
> Hi guys. Since several months, I wanted to create a little browser for learning VM and related stuff. I never did anything because I was lazy. Last week, I took Glamour and without knowing almost anything about it, in less than 3 hours (that includes everything, downloading the image, browsing examples, searching for something similar to what I need, and code the browsers I needed) , I come up with what I want to share with you.
+1 It is much faster to create a browser in glamour than with OB. I am not sure how Glamour scale, but it has impressed me for how easy it is to create a browser.
Alexandre
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