7 May
2011
7 May
'11
11:20 a.m.
Hi,
I take issue with "hacking" in relation to Glamour / Mondrian :)). I think many
problems come from the point of view through which these tools are meant to be built.
If you will try to build a regular user interface with Glamour, it will probably be very
costly. If, on the other hand, you successfully map your problem, and not the tool you
have a priori in mind, on the mechanisms of Glamour, then you get productive.
For example, the code of DSM does not work well with Mondrian because the abstractions of
Mondrian are not quite suitable for what DSM wanted to get (e.g., a table). So, the code
is not elegant. What would be needed is a new abstraction in which this code can look
nice. This abstraction is probably offered by EyeSee now.
The same with Glamour. Glamour is good for some things, and not so good for others. For
example, it is not that good for building user interfaces with side-effects. On the other
hand, it is possible to build a new kind of implicit browser that does provide the
mechanism you need to describe your requirement.
All in all, it depends :).
Cheers,
Doru
On 5 May 2011, at 22:45, Simon Denier wrote:
Well maybe it's true that Mondrian/Glamour make it easy to hack some tools which are
not so easy to build cleanly with objects. I never finished (or have yet to finish) the
clean implementation of Package Blueprints, it's not easy to find the right balance of
responsibility between objects.
On 5 mai 2011, at 21:19, Tudor Girba wrote:
--
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"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
Hi,
On 5 May 2011, at 20:38, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
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"We are all great at making mistakes."
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On May 5, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
This is not an issue and it actually never was. If you take a look, you will see that
most browsers have their own class now and multiple small methods inside.
Cheers,
Doru
I agree. But the very nice things, is to see the
flow of the browser in only one method.
I can tell you don't do that!
This is my main point against Glamour.
You want object and not script programming. In OB,
that was not the case. No idea what get refreshed when you click on a node. You had to go
on the definition of a node to see whether it does a refresh, and then, you had to check
who has subscribed to the announcement.
It is true that people have tendency to write script in Mondrian and Glamour in a long
method since these frameworks requires you to write blocks instead of creating classes.
However, nothing prevent one from modularizing scripts.
well.....
I will not comment on that.
Do not write long methods.
Cheers,
Alexandre
On 5 May 2011, at 01:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> Alex and other glamour users
>
> what is really important is that you do not write a long single method
> but a lot of little ones so that your code looks like normal smalltalk and not like a
class = a script.
> I think that this is important for the future of glamour.
>
> stef
>
>
>
>>> Hi guys. Since several months, I wanted to create a little browser for
learning VM and related stuff. I never did anything because I was lazy. Last week, I took
Glamour and without knowing almost anything about it, in less than 3 hours (that includes
everything, downloading the image, browsing examples, searching for something similar to
what I need, and code the browsers I needed) , I come up with what I want to share with
you.
>>
>>
>> +1
>> It is much faster to create a browser in glamour than with OB. I am not sure how
Glamour scale, but it has impressed me for how easy it is to create a browser.
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>> --
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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