[Moose-dev] Re: can you say to alex that edges are slow?

Hi Jannik, On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote: > Hi all, > > Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. > So, what is done with bluprint: > > Load Moose in Moose, > Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. > It is easier like that :) > > But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian > compute all the time. > Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? > If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all > things that we can do ? I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark. Cheers, Doru > Cheers, > Jannik > > On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi Jannik, >> >> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the >> decompression fails. >> >> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a >> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets >> the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation >> is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this >> computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to >> get an idea of where the problem is. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >> >>> Ok, I understand. >>> >>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the >>> script, or use a moose cache. >>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >>> >>> You can fing t image here: >>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jannik >>> >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which >>>>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>>>> >>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>>> >>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide >>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a >>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really >>>> computed just once. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you >>>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the >>>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it >>>>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this >>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>>>>> scripting. >>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable >>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is >>>>>>> useful ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>>>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>>>>> language. >>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>>>>>> can do this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>>>>>> with the zOrder. >>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You >>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where >>>>>>>> the problem comes from. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will >>>>>>>>> let you know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>>>>>> and edges. >>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present >>>>>>>>>>> is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines >>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> --- >>> Jannik Laval >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > --- > Jannik Laval > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev