[Moose-dev] Re: can you say to alex that edges are slow?

Hi Doru, Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache. Now, the problem is more general: I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization. So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do. Cheers, Jannik On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Jannik, > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. >> So, what is done with bluprint: >> >> Load Moose in Moose, >> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. >> It is easier like that :) >> >> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian >> compute all the time. >> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? >> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all >> things that we can do ? > > I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if > we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). > That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering > is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the > benchmark. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi Jannik, >>> >>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the >>> decompression fails. >>> >>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a >>> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and >>> sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the >>> computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls >>> this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us >>> to get an idea of where the problem is. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, I understand. >>>> >>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the >>>> script, or use a moose cache. >>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >>>> >>>> You can fing t image here: >>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics >>>>>> (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the >>>>>> canvas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>>>> >>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide >>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a >>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really >>>>> computed just once. >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >>>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you >>>>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the >>>>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it >>>>>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this >>>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>>>>>> scripting. >>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable >>>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian >>>>>>>> is useful ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>>>>>> language. >>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>>>>>>> can do this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a >>>>>>>>>> lot faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>>>>>>> with the zOrder. >>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You >>>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see >>>>>>>>> where the problem comes from. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will >>>>>>>>>> let you know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>>>>>>> and edges. >>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas >>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present >>>>>>>>>>>> is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing 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