9 Apr
2018
9 Apr
'18
9:14 a.m.
Hi,
I think it might be more interesting to start the review from the usage of it, not from
the internals.
Indeed, Bloc is primarily an engineering effort. But, there are a couple of things that
make it rather different from other solutions. For example:
- Only one rendering tree in all cases. This works also for graph visualizations that work
with any element without imposing knowledge about edges in the base system. We think this
is quite important, and especially when combined with a performant rendering, it can open
new doors for UI design.
- It is inspectable. For example, inspecting an element offers views such as for tracking
events, measurements or transformations. This can sound small, but when built at the very
core, it decreases costs significantly later on (already did for us).
Cheers,
Doru
On Apr 9, 2018, at 6:47 AM, Thierry Goubier
<thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Doru,
Le 08/04/2018 à 20:23, Tudor Girba a écrit :
--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
Hi,
I am, probably (very) slowly, because:
- Bloc is huge: 45k lines(*). Congratulations to all the effort that went into it.
- From the examples and a cursory look at the code, it is yagt (yet another gui toolkit),
which does not make it interesting to review(**). There is maybe really interesting stuff
in there, but it may be very hard to find the interesting detail in that huge chunk of
code.
Have you evaluated Bloc with the Moose tools?
Regards,
Thierry
(*) Which means, in C terms, probably the equivalent of half a million lines of code,
given Smalltalk ability to produce dense code.
(**) I'm not good nor an interesting person to ask for a review of an engineering
effort.
On Apr 7, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Thierry Goubier
<thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stef,
Le 07/04/2018 à 21:28, Stéphane Ducasse a écrit :
Bloc is a
fresh implementation and the goal is to provide the foundation for the future UI of Pharo.
I would be very happy to get your feedback on code, should you have the time time to look
at it. > On 7 Apr 2018, at 21:25, Thierry Goubier
<thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Doru,
>
> Le 07/04/2018 à 19:16, Tudor Girba a écrit :
>> Hi Thierry,
>> We are not recreating HotDraw.
>
> That's sad.
No it is not. :)
You can rebuild a new hotdraw if you want.
This is what diagrammer is showing.
It shows that we can move on the UI level again. I’m waiting for this since at least
eigth years.
Good for you :) I'm not so optimistic.
I have the feeling that it's not the GUI framework that was holding you, but the
architecture philosophy in the implementation: wrongly remapping of a type of GUI over
another system, widgets with hundreds of instance variables all blocks so that we
can't understand what they are used for, widgets requiring thousands of lines of code
to produce the dozens of different things on a view they require, a widget system with
call depths so long you have no idea of the path it's taking to open a window, another
where you have to explore your container to do things when you create a view.
So, will that change? Or, has that been carried over to the new one? Cheers,
Doru
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--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com
"Being happy is a matter of choice."
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https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev Stef
> I miss the time when I was doing domain specific editors in HotDraw.
>
> Thierry
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--------------------------------------------
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http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org
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