[Moose-dev] Re: can you say to alex that edges are slow?

Hi all, Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed. So, what is done with bluprint: Load Moose in Moose, Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint. It is easier like that :) But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time. Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ? If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?

Cheers, Jannik On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Jannik, > > Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the > decompression fails. > > If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a > new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets > the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation > is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this > computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get > an idea of where the problem is. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote: > >> Ok, I understand. >> >> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the >> script, or use a moose cache. >> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache. >> >> You can fing t image here: >> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>>> Yes, we will do this. >>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which >>>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas. >>>> >>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ? >>> >>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide >>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a >>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll. >>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really >>> computed just once. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for >>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics >>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you >>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the >>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1 >>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study : >>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is >>>>>> clearly difficult to scroll. >>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem >>>>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic... >>>>>> >>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by >>>>>> scripting. >>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with >>>>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is >>>>>> useful ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we >>>>>> generate frequently visualization. >>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting >>>>>> language. >>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian >>>>>> can do this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?). >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my reflexion >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jannik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case. Indeed it is a lot >>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced >>>>>>> with the zOrder. >>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I >>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I >>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can >>>>>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the >>>>>>> problem comes from. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that >>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let >>>>>>>> you know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik), >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of >>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes >>>>>>>>> and edges. >>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present >>>>>>>>>> is really a problem... >>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a >>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a >>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too. >>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell >>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines >>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Jannik Laval >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> --- >> Jannik Laval >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing should have the right to be different." > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev --- Jannik Laval _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list 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