21 Jul
2015
21 Jul
'15
11:46 a.m.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>
wrote:
I’m not saying that Telescope does not have cool
features that are not
available in Roassal. What I say is that I believe that builder is made to
ease people lives and the natural evolution of builder are Telescope
Visualizations.
The we are on the same page :)
Some people my not agree with me, but I think that
it’s strange that
Roassal builders didn’t move that way, and as there are already this cool
features in Telescope they are not integrated into Roassal.
I know Roassal team is thinking about it :)
Uko
On 21 Jul 2015, at 11:11, Usman Bhatti <usman.bhatti(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>
wrote:
Just my 2cents:
As far as I understand one of the main features of Telescope are
“Visualizations” that essentially are models that you set up and then they
spit out a view on demand. Now builders in Roassal were designed to be the
same.
So, how do you tell builder that you want to color or add interaction to a
"group" of nodes and not all the nodes in the visu? Groups are first-class
entities in Telescope. Composites are first class entities with
customizable interactions.
Here is the first page of agile visualization
book, that is about
builders and was first written as an IWST paper that was not accepted:
http://www.slideshare.net/GuillaumeLarcheveque/telescope-introduction-and-e….
It tells that there is a #renderIn: method that should be overwritten by a
builder developer and which accepts and view and does what the builder
should do.
Now some time after this documentation was written, people started
develop “stateless” builders that don’t collect all data but instead
instantly draw something.
What is the stateless builder because the paper does not mention it or may
be I missed something? If it is about parameterizing the visu, then
telescope offers this mechanism with the help of blocks and selectors and
the visualization is therefore disconnected from a particular usage.
Moreover, the model takes care of updating only the concerned nodes and
not all of the visualization.
I started to complain about this already at that
time… Now as I see a
situation now is that Telescope is a part of Roassal that Roassal
voluntarily refused to be.
Telescope was conceived to write reusable visualizations and it wasn't
destined to replace Roassal from the beginning.
But there are some interesting concepts in Telescope that you might see
taken up in Roassal 3.
Telescope should be seen as high-level composable model for a
visualization and we have created visualizations that are highly
interactive. We have done things like showing connections amongst several
levels (e.g. packages, classes, methods) and it wasn't too difficult to do
with a clean model and composite shapes with interactions.
Telescope is a rich model for visualization and it does not replace the
rendering features of Roassal (at least not for now).
regards.
usman
From my point of view the only reason to do this
stateless builders is
because they are easier to implement, you don’t have to create single
building method and so on. Otherwise they are much harder to use because
you have to remember order.
Uko
On 21 Jul 2015, at 09:44, Guillaume Larcheveque <
guillaume.larcheveque(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
The paper is not the best way to see what Telescope is able to.
Look at the demos and the presentation Anne did at Esug:
http://www.slideshare.net/GuillaumeLarcheveque/telescope-introduction-and-e…
2015-07-21 1:55 GMT+02:00 Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>om>:
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I don't know exactly what are your problems but if it is to create
--
*Guillaume Larcheveque*
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really high level visualizations with lot of
interactivity, Telescope is
definitely the good tool to use.
That was my understanding so I wanted to look at it. But without any
documentation it was hard for me to even begin.
Usman Bhatti posted in another thread link to a Telescope paper, so I'll
read it tomorrow and hopefully it will give me a little bit of insight.
If your problem is about visualization but not yet managed by Telescope;
ask me and I will look at it.
Well we have already heavily invested in Roassal and this is not going
to change, since we are continuing to work even on quite low level stuff
(like bendable lines, elements resizing, attach points, ...).
But I wanted to see, if Telescope could help us with some high-level
abstractions, which are currently quite painful for us. I even started
implementing some Eclipse GEF ideas...
So I'll read the paper and I'll see...
Peter
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