11 Nov
2013
11 Nov
'13
1:41 p.m.
Hi.
So if I’m not mistaken _ensure_ is meant to create referred data if it’s missing. But when
you look at:
ensureClass: var
var isBehavior
ifTrue: [ ^classDict at: var ].
var isSymbol
ifTrue: [
^classDict at: (self class environment at: var)
ifAbsent: [ metaDict at: var asString ]].
var isString
ifTrue: [ ^metaDict at: var ].
[ false ] assert.
it’s not ensuring anything. Isn’t there supposed to be something like:
metaDict at: var asString
ifAbsent: [ self processClass: var asClass ]
This really frustrates me about FAME. You cannot tell it "someObj asMSE”. You have to
write a tons of pragmas, then do some shenanigans with metamodels and only then you can
get serialisation working. Looks like stone age. Sorry for jumping on all the things like
that, it’s just that Moose - related things remind me of Java…
Uko
11 Nov
11 Nov
4:46 p.m.
Hi Yuriy,
This kind of messages are not particularly useful for anything.
Let's try to transform it into something positive. Are you unhappy with the
behavior or with the name? Do you have an actual proposal for improvement?
Doru
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
Hi.
So if I’m not mistaken _ensure_ is meant to create referred data if it’s
missing. But when you look at:
ensureClass: var
var isBehavior
ifTrue: [ ^classDict at: var ].
var isSymbol
ifTrue: [
^classDict at: (self class environment at: var)
ifAbsent: [ metaDict at: var
asString ]].
var isString
ifTrue: [ ^metaDict at: var ].
[ false ] assert.
it’s not ensuring anything. Isn’t there supposed to be something like:
metaDict at: var asString
ifAbsent: [ self processClass: var asClass ]
This really frustrates me about FAME. You cannot tell it "someObj asMSE”.
You have to write a tons of pragmas, then do some shenanigans with
metamodels and only then you can get serialisation working. Looks like
stone age. Sorry for jumping on all the things like that, it’s just that
Moose - related things remind me of Java…
Uko
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Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
5:03 p.m.
I have a big proposal but I won’t have time to implement it :(.
As for fame it would be nice to change something. If the idea is gust about getting a
class we can call it getClass:. If it should really ensure, then if class metamodel is
missing it should be created. I can do that, the question is what is the grand vision.
In general I like to have the tools that think for me. And then to tweak them if needed.
For example to export something to MSE you can just export all instance variables buy
default and then someone could add meta descriptions to change the behaviour to suite his
needs. Same goes for Moose. The Finder could show all instance variables. And then if we
need to improve it, we could tweak it. As for me the entry level is too high. It would be
nice if we could tell people something like: you can browse whatever you want. Now when
you need to make it better you can use this, and that.
This is the thing I experienced with FAME. I followed Moose methods of MSE exporting. It
was really hart. You can get a class of each object. You can check all the methods of that
class for FAME annotations. So what is the reason of creating a separate meta tower and
specifying explicitly all the classes?
But as I’ve already told, I don’t have time to do something like this at the moment,
moreover I have no idea if anyone else likes this. But FAME method should be fixed :).
Cheers
Uko
On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:46, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
This kind of messages are not particularly useful for anything.
Let's try to transform it into something positive. Are you unhappy with the behavior
or with the name? Do you have an actual proposal for improvement?
Doru
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
Hi.
So if I’m not mistaken _ensure_ is meant to create referred data if it’s missing. But
when you look at:
ensureClass: var
var isBehavior
ifTrue: [ ^classDict at: var ].
var isSymbol
ifTrue: [
^classDict at: (self class environment at: var)
ifAbsent: [ metaDict at: var asString ]].
var isString
ifTrue: [ ^metaDict at: var ].
[ false ] assert.
it’s not ensuring anything. Isn’t there supposed to be something like:
metaDict at: var asString
ifAbsent: [ self processClass: var asClass ]
This really frustrates me about FAME. You cannot tell it "someObj asMSE”. You have
to write a tons of pragmas, then do some shenanigans with metamodels and only then you can
get serialisation working. Looks like stone age. Sorry for jumping on all the things like
that, it’s just that Moose - related things remind me of Java…
Uko
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
9:49 p.m.
Hi,
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote:
I have a big proposal but I won’t have time to
implement it :(.
Just describe it.
As for fame it would be nice to change something. If
the idea is gust
about getting a class we can call it getClass:. If it should really ensure,
then if class metamodel is missing it should be created. I can do that, the
question is what is the grand vision.
In general I like to have the tools that think for me. And then to tweak
them if needed. For example to export something to MSE you can just export
all instance variables buy default and then someone could add meta
descriptions to change the behaviour to suite his needs.
It seems to me that you do not want Fame at all. Instead you just need a
serialization for your objects. So, perhaps Fuel is more appropriate for
your needs.
Same goes for Moose. The Finder could show all instance variables. And then
if we need to improve it, we could tweak it. As for me
the entry level is
too high. It would be nice if we could tell people something like: you can
browse whatever you want. Now when you need to make it better you can use
this, and that.
Well, you can :). Just use the GTInspector on any object and you have
exactly what you are asking for (and a bit more). You can easily extend
both the GTInspector and the MooseFinder with methods in your objects that
are annotated with corresponding pragmas.
For example, showing all variables of an object is done in the methods
below:
Object>>gtInspectorStateIn: composite
<gtInspectorPresentationOrder: 10>
composite custom: (GTObjectVariablesBrowser new browser startOn: self)
GTObjectVariablesBrowser>>variablesIn: composite
composite table
showOnly: 50;
display: [ :anObject | anObject gtInspectorRetrieveVariableValuePairs ];
sorted: [:assoc1 :assoc2 | assoc1 key < assoc2 key];
column: 'Variable' evaluated: [:assoc |
[ Text fromString: assoc key asString ]
on: Error
do: [ Text string: 'error printing' attribute: TextColor red ] ];
column: 'Value' evaluated: [:assoc |
[ Text fromString: (assoc value printString contractTo: 50) ]
on: Error
do: [ Text string: 'error printing' attribute: TextColor red ] ];
send: #value;
morphicSelectionAct: [:list | list selection value browse ]
icon: GLMUIThemeExtraIcons glamorousBrowse
on: $b
entitled: 'Browse'
This is the thing I experienced with FAME. I followed
Moose methods of MSE
exporting. It was really hart. You can get a class of each object. You can
check all the methods of that class for FAME annotations.
I do not understand.
So what is the reason of creating a separate meta
tower and specifying
explicitly all the classes?
Several. First, it was a really fun research project five years ago. I was
only external contributor, but it is a nice tiny model.
Seriously, one goal of Fame is to provide (meta-)model validation. There
clearly is room for other types of models, but this little checking comes
in handy when we generate the meta-model implementation in other languages
like Java. For example, VerveineJ uses the Java Fame implementation to
generate the FAMIX meta-model based on the MSE derived from the annotations
that come from Moose in Pharo. That is both cool and highly valuable. But,
it does come with the price of being less transparent for simple use cases.
But as I’ve already told, I don’t have time to do
something like this at
the moment, moreover I have no idea if anyone else likes this. But FAME
method should be fixed :).
Can you open an issue please?
Doru
Cheers
Uko
On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:46, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
This kind of messages are not particularly useful for anything.
Let's try to transform it into something positive. Are you unhappy with
the behavior or with the name? Do you have an actual proposal for
improvement?
Doru
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>wrote;wrote:
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi.
So if I’m not mistaken _ensure_ is meant to create referred data if it’s
missing. But when you look at:
ensureClass: var
var isBehavior
ifTrue: [ ^classDict at: var ].
var isSymbol
ifTrue: [
^classDict at: (self class environment at: var)
ifAbsent: [ metaDict at: var
asString ]].
var isString
ifTrue: [ ^metaDict at: var ].
[ false ] assert.
it’s not ensuring anything. Isn’t there supposed to be something like:
metaDict at: var asString
ifAbsent: [ self processClass: var asClass ]
This really frustrates me about FAME. You cannot tell it "someObj asMSE”.
You have to write a tons of pragmas, then do some shenanigans with
metamodels and only then you can get serialisation working. Looks like
stone age. Sorry for jumping on all the things like that, it’s just that
Moose - related things remind me of Java…
Uko
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
12 Nov
12 Nov
10:30 a.m.
On 11/11/2013 01:41 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
Hi.
So if I’m not mistaken _ensure_ is meant to create referred data if it’s missing. But
when you look at:
ensureClass: var
var isBehavior
ifTrue: [ ^classDict at: var ].
var isSymbol
ifTrue: [
^classDict at: (self class environment at: var)
ifAbsent: [ metaDict at: var asString ]].
var isString
ifTrue: [ ^metaDict at: var ].
[ false ] assert.
it’s not ensuring anything. Isn’t there supposed to be something like:
metaDict at: var asString
ifAbsent: [ self processClass: var asClass ]
This really frustrates me about FAME. You cannot tell it "someObj asMSE”. You have
to write a tons of pragmas, then do some shenanigans with metamodels and only then you can
get serialisation working. Looks like stone age. Sorry for jumping on all the things like
that, it’s just that Moose - related things remind me of Java…
I am also having
issues with the shenanigans of Fame.
Half of the time I forget some pragma somewhere, and each time I have to
create a n-to-n relationship, I have to think twice, and then think
twice again.
I would really love to have a real generator: a small tool that I could
use to create Fame-classes and/or relationships and that would do all
the work
But for one I don't have much time, and even worst, last time I tried
(on a sunny sunday afternoon), I just had to admit it was above my
limited intelligence to work at three different levels of abstraction at
the same time.
I have been trying to enrol some bright mind on the project, but with no
success for the time being.
:-(
nicolas
PS: OK, this email is not useful to the community, but I really needed
to release all this frustration
--
Nicolas Anquetil -- RMod research team (Inria)
3827
days inactive
3828
days old
4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Nicolas Anquetil -
Tudor Girba -
Yuriy Tymchuk