Hi, I am a newbie to programming and especially Smalltalk/Seaside/Pier. I've been fuddling around for a while trying to learn more in a Smalltalk environment that is not exactly set up for *complete* newbies like me. So with that in mind I thought I would start collecting all the information I can into one place to help others who may (foolishly! ;) ) follow me. This might be a bigger undertaking than I realise just yet - but I'm game to give it a shot. My sense is that there is a quiet group of people out there wishing this was already available. Here is the situation - I am not exactly sure the best way to start. I have books (I've started with SQEAK - A Quick Trip To Objectland) and more that I've downloaded from the web. But when it comes to Pier and Seaside (I know this is a Pier list so we can focus on that specifically) there is not a lot of help for people in my shoes - and I've heard this cry elsewhere. For example, even though I'm committed to learning Smalltalk, is Pier even ready for a non-programmer yet? So I have set up a website @ http://www.BeatTheDrums.org where I will start to place all the information I gather or create. I am currently reading a lot of Lucas Renggli's writings and trying to grok them :). With his kind permission I will be taking what I learn from that and re-formating it (in a format that works for novices - I want to be clear that I am showing no disrespect for his work) and adding in everything else I discover from this list and elsewhere on the web. The site itself is in extreme ALPHA right now as I try to get my head around everything and find a starting point and a way to structure my "journey". So, on the advice of Lucas, I am announcing my intentions to the list (sticking my head out!) and asking for your suggestions and advice. Lucas did mention that most of you are programmers and not inclined to document your experiences - so whatever pearls you throw my way are welcome. Perhaps I should start with a direct question - If you were a complete novice how would you approach getting started on Pier, given that you have no access to any professional Smalltalk education (schools, classes or user groups). Thanks Paul