I've also been working on some design issues related to Pier, including removing the use of tables. I ultimately decided to start with a minimal existing css framework (scribbish), and modify both Pier and scribbish into something useful. I wrote up a tutorial about the process: http://chapados.org/articles/pier-design-tutorial Links to download the image/changes file and the css files are at the end. I learned quite a bit in doing this, but I still have a quite a ways to go. I hope it makes sense. Enjoy! Brian