13 Apr
2007
13 Apr
'07
2:22 a.m.
I noticed that newer Pier and Magritte-Seaside commits in MC have a few
comments about being "for very latest Seaside." I assume that this means
Seaside 2.8. First, it would be nice if the exact version was stated in
the comments so we could tell what "very latest" means :-). Second: are
these _only_ for Seaside 2.8, or will they work in 2.7? If not, it would
be best if these could be labeled to reflect their exclusivity.
( I didn't see that this has been discussed before.)
brad
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
13 Apr
13 Apr
7:26 a.m.
I noticed that newer Pier and Magritte-Seaside commits
in MC have a
few
comments about being "for very latest Seaside." I assume that this
means
Seaside 2.8. First, it would be nice if the exact version was
stated in
the comments so we could tell what "very latest" means :-). Second:
are
these _only_ for Seaside 2.8, or will they work in 2.7? If not, it
would
be best if these could be labeled to reflect their exclusivity.
( I didn't see that this has been discussed before.)
I guess the latest Magritte should work for any recent version of
Seaside (2.7). There is nothing specific for 2.8. The comments are
basically wrong.
Cheers,
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
8:47 a.m.
2007/4/13, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)iam.unibe.ch>ch>:
Last magritte versions can be loaded on a Seaside 2.7 image. I don't
know about Pier.
--
Damien Cassou
I noticed that
newer Pier and Magritte-Seaside commits in MC have a
few
comments about being "for very latest Seaside." I assume that this
means
Seaside 2.8. First, it would be nice if the exact version was
stated in
the comments so we could tell what "very latest" means :-). Second:
are
these _only_ for Seaside 2.8, or will they work in 2.7? If not, it
would
be best if these could be labeled to reflect their exclusivity.
( I didn't see that this has been discussed before.)
I guess the latest Magritte should work for any recent version of
Seaside (2.7). There is nothing specific for 2.8. The comments are
basically wrong.
9:06 a.m.
I noticed that newer Pier and Magritte-Seaside commits
in MC have a
few
comments about being "for very latest Seaside." I assume that this
means
Seaside 2.8. First, it would be nice if the exact version was
stated in
the comments so we could tell what "very latest" means :-). Second:
are
these _only_ for Seaside 2.8, or will they work in 2.7? If not, it
would
be best if these could be labeled to reflect their exclusivity.
( I didn't see that this has been discussed before.)
I guess the latest Magritte should work for any recent version of
Seaside (2.7). There is nothing specific for 2.8. The comments are
basically wrong. 
9:46 a.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier and Seaside 2.8)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi,
If you want to use Seaside 2.8 (and benefit from the
major speed
improvements) go with the configuration I recently posted (latest
Magritte, latest Pier, Seaside2.8a1-lr.218, RSRSS-pmm.26). Don't take
the latest versions of Seaside, they are subtly broken (work in
progress).
I'm just curious that how much faster the seaside 2.8 is (than 2.7/2.6).
Yes, I know that this is wrong question because it will be different
from case by case, but for example,
1. page generation(?) speed
2. simple request processing speed - maybe counter example?
3. I/O (network or file) speed
Lukas
Thanks in advance.
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11:24 a.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier and Seaside 2.8)
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I'm just curious that how much faster the seaside
2.8 is (than
2.7/2.6).
Yes, I know that this is wrong question because it will be different
from case by case, but for example,
It is a bit early to talk about exact figures.
1. page generation(?) speed
Generating a Pier page is at least twice as fast with Seaside 2.8.
Other applications also show major page rendering improvement, but it
heavily depends on the kind of application.
2. simple request processing speed - maybe counter
example?
None as of now.
Major memory improvements (and managing less memory is presumably
also much faster) are possible by using partial continuations. There
are currently some experiments driven, however it is not that easy to
do and it requires major rewrites of the whole query processing.
3. I/O (network or file) speed
None as of now.
For now Seaside development focuses on 1 and 2. 3 is equally
important, but it is a bit out of the scope of most peoples interests.
Cheers,
Lukas
- - --
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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3:35 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier and Seaside 2.8)
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Lukas Renggli wrote:
Good to hear this.
I also hope some improvements here.
It seems that I/O speed is not good in Seaside (actually Squeak). Though
I have no experience on writing plugin, can I get some improvement if I
create plugin which reads data from other server through network and
shoot it out to currently connected socket(native?)? Is this possible?
I'm thinking something like passthrough function in PHP.
> 1. page
generation(?) speed
Generating a Pier page is at least twice as fast with Seaside 2.8.
Other applications also show major page rendering improvement, but it
heavily depends on the kind of application.
> 2. simple
request processing speed - maybe counter example?
None as of now.
Major memory improvements (and managing less memory is presumably
also much faster) are possible by using partial continuations. There
are currently some experiments driven, however it is not that easy to
do and it requires major rewrites of the whole query processing.
> 3. I/O
(network or file) speed
None as of now.
For now Seaside development focuses on 1 and 2. 3 is equally
important, but it is a bit out of the scope of most peoples interests.
Cheers,
Lukas
Thank you as always.
- --
Lukas Renggli
Sungjin Chun
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4:32 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier and Seaside 2.8)
2007/4/13, Sungjin Chun <chunsj(a)embian.com>om>:
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Hash: SHA1
Lukas Renggli wrote:
Good to hear this.
I also hope some improvements here.
It seems that I/O speed is not good in Seaside (actually Squeak). Though
I have no experience on writing plugin, can I get some improvement if I
create plugin which reads data from other server through network and
shoot it out to currently connected socket(native?)? Is this possible?
I'm thinking something like passthrough function in PHP.
As bad as Squeak IO might be, it's not a bottleneck for Seaside. There
are some places where plugins might provide measurable speedup
(encoding, ...) but we are not that desperate yet.
Philippe
> 1.
page generation(?) speed
Generating a Pier page is at least twice as fast with Seaside 2.8.
Other applications also show major page rendering improvement, but it
heavily depends on the kind of application.
> 2.
simple request processing speed - maybe counter example?
None as of now.
Major memory improvements (and managing less memory is presumably
also much faster) are possible by using partial continuations. There
are currently some experiments driven, however it is not that easy to
do and it requires major rewrites of the whole query processing.
> 3.
I/O (network or file) speed
None as of now.
For now Seaside development focuses on 1 and 2. 3 is equally
important, but it is a bit out of the scope of most peoples interests.
Cheers,
Lukas
Thank you as always.
- --
Lukas Renggli
Sungjin Chun
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_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
14 Apr
14 Apr
4:45 a.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier and Seaside 2.8)
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Philippe Marschall wrote:
I'm considering this kind of improvement because my personal program
does have data transfer function which reads data from other storage
server and shoot the file data - which I cannot access directly - to
browser. From PHP version of this transfer program, the load of system
is very low and stable, but for squeak version which I integrated with
seaside, does task much load of CPU and sometimes browser said that
connection is closed during transaction. But like you, I'm not that
desperate on this respect :-)
Sungjin Chun
As bad as
Squeak IO might be, it's not a bottleneck for Seaside. There
are some places where plugins might provide measurable speedup
(encoding, ...) but we are not that desperate yet.
Philippe
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13 Apr
13 Apr
8:24 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pierand Seaside 2.8)
From: Sungjin Chun <chunsj(a)embian.com>
Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Subject: Re: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest
Pierand Seaside 2.8)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:35:03 +0900
It seems that I/O speed is not good in Seaside (actually Squeak). Though
I have no experience on writing plugin, can I get some improvement if I
create plugin which reads data from other server through network and
shoot it out to currently connected socket(native?)? Is this possible?
I'm thinking something like passthrough function in PHP.
If you're going to write a plug in I would look at lighttpd. The creator of
it uses the fastest possible way to send files on all platforms it runs on.
For example, on linux is uses a zero copy system call (sendfile) to send the
data.
For those of you not familiar with the "zero copy" concept, someone once
rewrote the standard C printf library to be zero copy and I don't remember
the numbers but I do remember the speed up was substantial (can't remember
the numbers, I think it was in one of the Stevenson's unix books).
_________________________________________________________________
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8:32 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier andSeaside 2.8)
From: Sungjin Chun <chunsj(a)embian.com>
Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier
andSeaside 2.8)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:46:18 +0900
I'm just curious that how much faster the seaside 2.8 is (than 2.7/2.6).
Yes, I know that this is wrong question because it will be different
from case by case, but for example,
And I would like to know what has been lost (if anything). Is there
anything Seaside could do before that is not possible anymore?
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm…
9:28 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest Pier andSeaside 2.8)
I'm just
curious that how much faster the seaside 2.8 is (than
2.7/2.6).
Yes, I know that this is wrong question because it will be different
from case by case, but for example,
And I would like to know what has been lost (if anything). Is there
anything Seaside could do before that is not possible anymore?
9:33 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest PierandSeaside 2.8)
Hehe. Ok. :) I mean like, you are switching the Continuation mechanism,
no? Wont that mean some things wont be able to work as before?
From: Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Subject: Re: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest
PierandSeaside 2.8)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:28:18 +0200
No, nothing lost, I hope.
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
_________________________________________________________________
MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today.
http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
I'm
just curious that how much faster the seaside 2.8 is (than
2.7/2.6).
Yes, I know that this is wrong question because it will be different
from case by case, but for example,
And I would like to know what has been lost (if anything). Is there
anything Seaside could do before that is not possible anymore?
11:39 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latest PierandSeaside 2.8)
Hehe. Ok. :) I mean like, you are switching the
Continuation
mechanism, no? Wont that mean some things wont be able to work as
before?
Well, that should also happen under the hood. If we can make it happen.
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
14 Apr
14 Apr
8:21 a.m.
New subject: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re: latestPierandSeaside 2.8)
Fair enough. The framework is in the best of hands. I just wanted to see
if this was one of those "well, we don't actually need X, we can use
Javascript" type things.
From: Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch>
Subject: Re: [OT] Speed Improvement in Seaside 2.8? (WAS: Re:
latestPierandSeaside 2.8)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:39:22 +0200
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm…
Hehe. Ok. :) I mean like, you are switching
the Continuation
mechanism, no? Wont that mean some things wont be able to work as
before?
Well, that should also happen under the hood. If we can make it happen.
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki 
13 Apr
13 Apr
10:06 p.m.
If you want to use Seaside 2.8 (and benefit from the major speed
improvements) go with the configuration I recently posted
(latest Magritte, latest Pier, Seaside2.8a1-lr.218,
RSRSS-pmm.26). Don't take the latest versions of Seaside,
they are subtly broken (work in progress).
Lukas
Which exact version of Scriptaculous would go with those, I'm going to
attempt an upgrade soon for the speed improvements and this is what I
needed.
Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com
11:41 p.m.
Which exact version of Scriptaculous would go with
those, I'm going to
attempt an upgrade soon for the speed improvements and this is what I
needed.
Scriptaculous-lr.179
Seaside2.8a1-lr.220
RSRSS-pmm.26
and the latest of Magritte and Pier works well.
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
6222
days inactive
6223
days old
16 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Brad Fuller -
Damien Cassou -
J J -
Lukas Renggli -
Philippe Marschall -
Ramon Leon -
Sungjin Chun