8 Mar
2006
8 Mar
'06
3:55 p.m.
Hi,
since the structures have a "name" beside the "title" it's very
difficult to create internal Links when you renamed (rather "retitled")
a structure.
You have to always remember the name you gave the structure first
because if you want to create internal links you have to use now this
name else the link is broken. I don't think thats a good Idea because no
one can guess the hidden "name" of structures....
Regards,
Thomas
9 Mar
9 Mar
1:01 a.m.
Hi,
I agree with you about the issue you are raising. In fact, it's the
only reason why I am holding back my plan to upgrade to the latest
version of Pier.
We use a slightly customised Pier to manage our intranet and it was
relatively easy to explain to the users that if they want to create a
link to a structure, they just have to put the title of the target.
The situation was not that smooth when we were using Plone and custom
CMS. Even after a while, a large portion of our user base still had
troubles to make the difference between the name of a structure and
its title when it came to create links. The consequence was that the
sites produced during that period contained a lot of endless pages
and very few links.
So far, we get a better balance between cross-referencing and page
size, thanks to the sheer simplicity of the way Pier manages its
links. I fear that we will lose this simplicity if we introduce back
the same concepts that didn't performed that well during our previous
attempts.
Regards,
Dominique
Le 08-mars-06 à 15:55, Thomas Froeb a écrit :
Hi,
since the structures have a "name" beside the "title" it's very
difficult to create internal Links when you renamed (rather
"retitled")
a structure.
You have to always remember the name you gave the structure first
because if you want to create internal links you have to use now this
name else the link is broken. I don't think thats a good Idea
because no
one can guess the hidden "name" of structures....
Regards,
Thomas
9:15 a.m.
Hi Dominique, Hi Thomas,
since the structures have a "name" beside
the "title" it's very
difficult to create internal Links when you renamed (rather
"retitled") a structure.
thanks for rising the issue with the 'name' and 'title'. To introduce
a name was a difficult decision for me, and it is definitely not a
final decision, I just wanted to give it a try.
The reasons were the following:
1. People want to change the title of pages without that the URL
changes, so that they don't need to update their bookmarks.
2. People want to use Pier to model existing (static) pages and want
to model the URL to look the exactly the same.
3. People want use strange characters and very long titles, this
makes the URL unreadable and difficult to parse and generate.
4. People want use the same title twice within the same context, this
is impossible if we use the title as an unique key.
You have to always remember the name you gave the
structure first
because if you want to create internal links you have to use now
this name else the link is broken. I don't think thats a good Idea
because no one can guess the hidden "name" of structures....
It is not so hidden after all, you can just copy the part of the URL
into your link.
The situation was not that smooth when we were using
Plone and custom
CMS. Even after a while, a large portion of our user base still had
troubles to make the difference between the name of a structure and
its title when it came to create links. The consequence was that the
sites produced during that period contained a lot of endless pages
and very few links.
Ok, I see that this can be a problem, but I guess that there also a
couple of solutions to this problem:
a. Let the user browse a tree navigator to help them writing the links.
b. Display the current name more clearly in the edit page.
So far, we get a better balance between
cross-referencing and page
size, thanks to the sheer simplicity of the way Pier manages its
links. I fear that we will lose this simplicity if we introduce back
the same concepts that didn't performed that well during our previous
attempts.
The current trial is definitely a loss of simplicity, I agree,
however I don't know of another simple way to get 1. - 4. working
only having a title. If there are any ideas how these problems could
be cleanly solved otherwise, I would be happy to discuss and maybe
(help to) implement them?
Cheers,
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
9:23 a.m.
I often wanted to change a title of a page without changing links to it
so the difference between title and name is useful I think. However, it
should be clear to the user how to reference a page.
Why not displaying in each page (in view mode) the name of the page ?
Something like 'Link me with "/myName"' would be cool.
--
Damien Cassou
11:41 a.m.
I often wanted to change a title of a page without
changing links to it
so the difference between title and name is useful I think. However, it
should be clear to the user how to reference a page.
Why not displaying in each page (in view mode) the name of the page ?
Something like 'Link me with "/myName"' would be cool.
1. People want to change the title of pages without that the URL
changes, so that they don't need to update their bookmarks.
2. People want to use Pier to model existing (static) pages and want
to model the URL to look the exactly the same.
3. People want use strange characters and very long titles, this
makes the URL unreadable and difficult to parse and generate.
4. People want use the same title twice within the same context, this
is impossible if we use the title as an unique key.
I think it's a good idea to
have a name beside the title. I also
intoduced this in my Smallwiki 1 for my XML persistency to have constant
directeries (references) in the filesystem and I use this in Pier too.
I fixed the problem with the internal links for me by changing the
PRPathLookup >> visitChildren: method so that it finds the child also
by the title. It is not very clean but works for my purposes.
Perhaps it is better to change the reference of a link - after editing a
page - to the right path?
Regards, Thomas
1:49 p.m.
I fixed the problem with the internal links for me by
changing the
PRPathLookup >> visitChildren: method so that it finds the child also
by the title. It is not very clean but works for my purposes.
Yes, that sounds like a simple solution: when parsing a path it first
tries to look it up by name, if it fails by title; paths are always
printed by name.
Perhaps it is better to change the reference of a link
- after
editing a
page - to the right path?
I think this happens already. At least the paths should be
automatically rewritten if you rename the target page.
What do others think about this?
Cheers,
Lukas
Regards, Thomas
_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
7:20 p.m.
I fixed the
problem with the internal links for me by changing the
PRPathLookup >> visitChildren: method so that it finds the child
also
by the title. It is not very clean but works for my purposes.
Yes, that sounds like a simple solution: when parsing a path it first
tries to look it up by name, if it fails by title; paths are always
printed by name.
11:06 p.m.
Hi Thomas, Hi Lukas,
It sounds like a good compromise for me. The interim solution (as
implemented in Pier-All.72) already feels much simpler to deal with.
Thanks!
Dominique
I fixed the
problem with the internal links for me by changing the
PRPathLookup >> visitChildren: method so that it finds the child
also by the title. It is not very clean but works for my purposes.
Yes, that sounds like a simple solution: when parsing a path it
first tries to look it up by name, if it fails by title; paths are
always printed by name.
...
What do others think about this?
6863
days inactive
6864
days old
7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Damien Cassou -
Dominique Dutoit -
Lukas Renggli -
Thomas Froeb