9 Dec
2004
9 Dec
'04
4:50 p.m.
Stef:
I have no problems with your move, I mean what can I do. Since I don't
intend to use the Squeak version I guess I will have to enhance SmallWiki
1 as I go and which I already have. I do have a problem with with folks
not understanding the NC license. It has now officially become annoying to
me. I am not sure why you all are experiencing 40 minutes on a merge. I
assume that this is not on the SmallWiki code base because my code base
here is so humongously larger than SmallWiki and it no where takes me as
long. Are you all doing incremental merges?
If American Express decides to use a SmallWiki purely as its Intranet
content server they still should pay. If you are small company and have
your employees telephone numbers on a SmallWiki then don't pay unless you
want support of course. Simple.
The small companies that don't work on VW don't because they don't
understand the license. You get what you pay for. Don't get me wrong. I
think Squeak is really cool. Some very interesting and innovative things
have come out of it and still do and will. However, it is not an
enterprise level development environment. It is really not that well
suited for business development. Some people have, I understand. But one
will hit a wall. The performance is not there, the tools are not there, it
is just not a VW and I mean that again from a business dev perspective. I
like Squeak especially stuff like Croquet.
-Charles
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:39:34 +0100, stéphane ducasse <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch>
wrote:
Hi charles
In fact this is a bit complex than that:
- James said that normally if you do not ask for support you would not
have to pay
- I have no problem to pay for VW but others have.
- for example this is not clear if you should pay because you use a
wiki for a company
if the wiki is used to get cusotmer information ....
- we decided to move to Squeak because lukas was only developing in VW
for SmallWiki
(but back porting to VW is something that we will always keep in mind).
- May be VW is better for serving than squeak but we had to try :)
- this is true that store is a bit painful (even if the tool of MC are
still for my taste a bit raw).
But waiting 40 min for a merge is not possible for me.
- We hope that more people will contribute to SmallWiki 2 :) because we
felt a bit alone.
- SmallWiki 2 will be more a really cool contents management system
than a simple wiki
so small companies may want to help and they often do not work in VW.
- for traits they are not yet in squeak but in the pipeline for 3.9.
But as lukas said this should not
be a problem
I hope that this makes our move clearer but
Stef
On 9 déc. 04, at 15:09, Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
--
Charles A. Monteiro
I am running a SmallWiki for the NYC Smalltalk
user's group. I can run
it because I am not engaging in commerce i.e. it runs on a
non-commercial license, to that extent it is very clear what one can
and can not do. Not sure why you all are having such a difficulty in
understanding this. If somebody wants to make money with SmallWiki and
finds it offensive to share with the technology partner that creates
the tools which allow one to run and enhance SmallWiki then said
individual would have to use Squeak. BTW, BottomFeeder does not have
"this issue" as you put it because it is a non-commercial product
therefore it can use the "non-commercial" license.
VW can run headless. VisualWave servers are deployed headlessly.
I keep hearing about Monticello it would be nice to see a comparison in
order to understand why it is more advanced than StORE.
A full copy of the email apparently does did not get sent. Is there now
a "traits" implementation in Squeak?
Oh yes, why would one want to run a VNC server from within the Squeak
image?
thanks
-Charles
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:03:32 +0100, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)iam.unibe.ch>
wrote:
Chris, don't worry about porting issues with
SmallWiki 2. Thanks for
all your work on SmallWiki 1!
I will officially announce now that we are developing SmallWiki 2 is
Squeak, with Seaside as default view and GOODS as default backend.
The main reason for this change are the followings:
- The VisualWorks license sucks. Lots of people are unable to run
SmallWiki on their servers simply because they would need to buy a
Cincom license. I don't know why Bottom Feeder doesn't has this issue?
- Squeak and its libraries are all open-source. The latest
implementations of Seaside and GOODS are always at your fingertips. As
versioning system we are using Monticello that is more advanced and
much faster than StORE. Squeak can be easily run headless (even with a
VNC server running within the image itself) on any machine.
- Porting back SmallWiki 2 to VisualWorks should be very easy, as
there is an excellent port of Seaside by Michel Bany, adding also a
lot of methods that are commonly used in Squeak.
- Traits could help a lot avoiding code duplication and with the
flattening property it is no problem to keep compatibility with other
Smalltalks.
Cheers,
Lukas
-- Charles A. Monteiro