Not too long ago (yesterday) I decided to re-check if Seaside had
progressed in its maturity. It seems to done so. However, I was
somewhat amazed that there was no app that seemed to be a poster-
child for it's use. I shouldn't have been; it seems Smalltalk apps
are there, just more difficult to find that those in other
So I asked on the Seaside list about apps that showcased it; I had
really expected there to be several in the vein of CMS, blog, web
forums, and WIKIs. As I am really wanting to switch from OpenCMS, I
So someone there recommended I look at Pier (as I'm sure most of the
people here also read that list, big surprise). I truly am
impressed. The sample out of the box looks amazingly good for a
WIKI. I tend to subscribe to the clea, non-clutered approach to web
apps. And just looking at the default app makes it seem Pier /
Seaside is just the ticket (as another wish item is to be able to
develop on the web, as I travel every week).
I've started looking at Pier's code, and unfortunately, I'd have to
say it's not the clearest. This may simply be because I've only been
looking at it for several hours over the last day. But the other
issue is the lack of documentation. Of course, this applies equally
- if not more - to Seaside. What I'm looking for is documentation on
at least getting up-and-running with my own instance of the app. The
default install creates the mini-intro WIKI: am I simply supposed to
remove all the content there and replace with my own? That doesn't
seem correct. At least, I'd be concerned about the default classes/
instances being over-written when I upgraded.
Continuing in that vain, documentation covering where / how my data
is stored / saved is critical. If I want a backup of my WIKI at a
point in time, do I just simply file-out, well, what? Documentation
on design and extensibility would be great, although I understand
those would not be of the same importance as to getting them written.
Lastly (for the moment anyway :-} ), I understand that Pier is a
relatively new app, and there is adequate warning that this is
experimental software, use at your own risk, not in production, etc.
Well, I'm looking for some stable. And able to be used in a
production environment. Does that mean I should stop looking at
Pier? Is there a timeline for when a stable, production quality
version will be available?
Please do not infer from anything here that this is a bitch e-mail.
I've not intended it as such. I just find Pier very promising, and
want to use it. I'm just tired of needing to switch products (like
JSPWiki, then OpenCMS, etc.) when I find that I've reached the limit
of what they can do, or in OpenCMS' case, where the source code is so
bad that there is no hope of me contributing to cleaning it up.
Thanks for your time (and hopefully answers).
I don't have a good understanding of how CSS is applied. I see in
the source view of the page several references to CSS files, but I do
not understand what generates those entities. Would someone explain?
It I keep calling PRPierFrame.initialize, can I just keep creating
instances? Or should each image only run one?
Also, what is the difference in what name I give the kernel, and the
context? Couldn't you just use the same name for both? Or is the
name of the kernel relevant when upgrading Pier versions?
I just did a re-install on Seaside & Pier into a clean image. This
time, I took a little time and browsed a few of the packages first.
I came across OmniBrowser. This looked interesting, so I installed
it. Then, when I installed Pier, a PierBrowser opened. This had not
happened before. Did I miss something in the docs saying that
OmniBrowser was something Pier interacted with, and to install it
beforehand? Am I correct in the connection?
I published the latest code of Magritte and Pier on SqueakMap:
* Magritte: Not many changes, but a few bug-fixes and small
improvements. The reporting part is still experimental and incomplete,
so don't complain about that ;-)
* Pier: A lot of minor changes, fixes, improvements and a couple of
new hooks to ensure easier extensibility without the use of overrides.
Pier works with the latest version of Seaside and fully supports
bookmark-able URLs on all its links. When updating an existing
instance, take care that I changed the names of PRSeasideFrame,
PRSeasideMain, PRSeasideConfiguration to PRPierFrame, PRPierMain,
PRPierConfiguration; this might require that you re-register your
kernel as a Seaside application.
* Pier Unix Security: A new experimental package providing a simple
unix like security system, using no overrides and being fully
integrated (thanks to Magritte) into all currently available views
(Seaside, Pier). When loading this package all the prerequisites such
as Magritte and Pier and Seaside (if requested) will be automatically
loaded. The default user name/password is admin/pier. To add/change
user/groups it is required to directly use the image.
> I realize that this is not a Seaside question directly, but I'm
> interested in using Peir with Seaside. Problem is, I find no docs on
> Pier, nor a website. Am I simply overlooking it?
Pier was formerly called "SmallWiki 2", so you might find some
information if you are looking for that.
The following documentation is currently available:
* I am about to setup a new website for Pier on my server (running
with Pier), for now you can find some information at
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/smallwiki/smallwiki2/ (maintained by Damien
* There is a mailing-list about Magritte and Pier at
smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch. An archive is available at
* There is also a about SmallWiki 2 (Pier), giving some more details.
Right now there is no download, because it hasn't been published yet,
but there will be probably soon and I can send it to anyone
* Yeah, from time to time I even some class comments ;-)
Later today I will publish a new version with many fixes on SqueakMap.