18 Feb
2006
18 Feb
'06
1:10 a.m.
Hi,
I've just posted on squeakmap a stable release of smallwiki for Squeak
3.6 only, which is basically the same one used for
www.squeak.org. This release is a "one-click" install - "ready for
contribution" release both for users and developers, which means that
you don't need to bother about dependencies. The unstable one - called
Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).
Users : just install this version and follows the instruction in the
smallwiki readme.
Developers : install this version, you will see on monticello all
packages from which smallwiki depends (NamedServices, KomHttp and so
one). The repository is in global read/write access, so you don't need
to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki. So please consider
that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
"how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.
Developers - bis :
How to keep the "one-click" installation both for developers and users
? Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.
Thanks !
Samir
18 Feb
18 Feb
8:59 a.m.
Hi Samir,
great news, thanks for creating this package!
you don't need to bother about dependencies. The
unstable one - called
Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).
Me neither, I am just listed as author, not owner or maintainer. So I
am unable to change that. Chris can you do it?
to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki. So
please consider
that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
"how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.
I will try to install it. I am especially interested into those
comments. Mind you if I reuse them for Pier?
Thank,
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
1:31 p.m.
How to keep the "one-click" installation
both for developers and users
? Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.
Samir
the pattern is to have one package with no code and just dependent
packages.
Each time a package is modified: you version the main one and all the
dependents
will be versioned too. I would not have internal dependencies between
the packages
only between the top package and its component (this is a well-know
approach: if
you hardcode dependencies between the local package then one day you
will be blocked
because one app will be X-1.22 and the other X-.13 and in VW you
could not load them
and get stuck). Read the blog of Cess on LineUp this is exactly the
idea and we got burned
by VW package dependencies. Now we do not use them anymore.
This way you have a kind of specification of what are the packages
working together.
Stef
19 Feb
19 Feb
1:53 p.m.
Hi all,
As I don't know the current state of the package I just made both of you
co-maintainers of it.
By the way ... is there a chance or timeline of some stable-release of
Pier? I have some guys (including me :-) which need some great Content
Management.
Chris
you don't
need to bother about dependencies. The unstable one - called
Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).
Me neither, I am just listed as author, not owner or maintainer. So I
am unable to change that. Chris can you do it?
6:10 p.m.
"stéphane ducasse" <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> writes:
Hi Stef,
This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
How to keep
the "one-click" installation both for developers and users
? Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.
Samir
the pattern is to have one package with no code and just dependent
packages. you version the main one and all the
dependents
will be versioned too.
Anyway, it works now : thanks !
Samir
6:17 p.m.
Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)iam.unibe.ch> writes:
Hi Samir,
No problem for me !
As you've noticed, there was a lot of changes between the 0.9.23 and
0.9.53 and I'm trying to understand the changes and how to incorporate
gradually those changes into smallwiki-stable... Not easy !
Cheers,
Samir
to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki.
So please consider
that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
"how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.
I will try to install it. I am especially interested into those
comments. Mind you if I reuse them for Pier?
6:34 p.m.
Hi Stef,
This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on
smallwiki-kernel.
In VW we ended with situation where we could not load two
applications together
since one was internally depending on the version 2 of a component
while the other
was depending on another version. We could not fix that since we
could not load the
packages. So we stopped having internal dependency and use instead
lineUp
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/travis/blogView?
showComments=true&entry=3265388740
Stef
11:01 p.m.
By the way ... is there a chance or timeline of some
stable-release
of Pier? I have some guys (including me :-) which need some great
Content Management.
It is already on SqueakMap, for quite some time now ;-)
I recently heard an interesting presentation of Gilad Bracha titled
"Objects as Software Services: Toward a World without Releases".
For me the thing without the releases was nothing new: I never really
released "SmallWiki 1", and this will be probably the same for Pier
and Magritte. At some point in time, people just started to use it,
because it fits their needs. Some people wait a bit longer, because
they require a particular feature, others are just happy with what
they get. Some people never update their code after they have what
they initially wanted, others always want to stay up-to-date at the
bleeding edge. Some people write extensions, fork the system, modify
it while merging my changes, etc.
And at the same time I am slowly, but continuously developing it
further, enhancing the running system, fixing bugs, integrating
changes of other people, etc.
Btw, I am using Pier for my own web-site now ;-)
Lukas
--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
20 Feb
20 Feb
5:44 p.m.
"stéphane ducasse" <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> writes:
I must admit that I don't understand at all : so you say that A does
not depend on B anymore, but I don't understand how do you tackle the
dependencies issues with current tools available for squeak
(Monticello I mean ??). And after reading the link you gave me, Avi
seems to say that he follows the same approach than the one reported
on the blog... I would like to understand the problem.
I've just posted on squeak-dev about that, maybe it could interesting
for the list to dialogue around that...
Samir
Hi Stef,
This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on
smallwiki-kernel.
8:08 p.m.
In visualWorks
if A.1 depends on B.23
and
Z.2 depends on B.24
you cannot load A and Z since B.23 and B.24 cannot load together.
So what you do is
W
A.1
B.23
K
Z.2
B.24
If you want to load
A.1 and Z.2
you can
because you load first B.23 or B.24
because you analyzed
But you did not had to change A.1 or Z.2 for that.
You only created a new lineUp
R
A.1
B.23
Z.2
Since other components may want to still load W or A.1 with another B
version
I let you imagine how this can be the mess with packages depending on
packages depending on package.....
Stef
On 20 févr. 06, at 17:44, Samir Saidani wrote:
"stéphane ducasse"
<ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> writes:
I must admit that I don't understand at all : so you say that A does
not depend on B anymore, but I don't understand how do you tackle the
dependencies issues with current tools available for squeak
(Monticello I mean ??). And after reading the link you gave me, Avi
seems to say that he follows the same approach than the one reported
on the blog...
Me too
Hi Stef,
This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on
smallwiki-kernel. I would like to understand the problem.
I've just posted on squeak-dev about that, maybe it could interesting
for the list to dialogue around that...
Samir
_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
6634
days inactive
6636
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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chris＠chrisburkert.de -
Lukas Renggli -
Samir Saidani -
stéphane ducasse