From yanni@rogers.com Tue Nov  9 19:43:13 2010
From: Yanni Chiu <yanni@rogers.com>
To: smallwiki@list.inf.unibe.ch
Subject: what is status of Pier-FilesystemPersistence
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:42:56 -0500
Message-ID: <ibc4ng$6ml$1@dough.gmane.org>
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I've been looking at Pier-FilesystemPersistence, and have a few questions.

The version comments seem to indicate it is still a work in progress. 
What work remains to be done?

It looks like the change history is not persisted. What's a good way to 
do that - individual xml files, or a change log?

The usage scenario seems to be: start image, import kernel, save pages. 
Would it be possible to do a lazy read of the kernel, instead of reading 
it in entirely, at image start up?

How does it compare with SIXX persistence done for VA Smalltalk?

-- 
Yanni Chiu


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From jvdsandt@gmail.com Wed Nov 10 10:07:39 2010
From: Jan van de Sandt <jvdsandt@gmail.com>
To: smallwiki@list.inf.unibe.ch
Subject: Re: what is status of Pier-FilesystemPersistence
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:07:35 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTikL3p1w=ZSTrX9rCeVtiBMcy5xVvCwiGjLCo9Yv@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <ibc4ng$6ml$1@dough.gmane.org>
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Hello Yanni,

The idea of the Pier-FilesystemPersistence package is to have an
export/import and persistence mechanism that stores the tree of PRStructure
objects in a directory tree. Each instance of a subclass of PRStructure is
represented by a single xml file. The xml file contains something like this:

<PRPage name="about">
    <title>About this website</title>
    <document>bla bla bla</document>
    ....
</PRPage>

With the current version you can export a Pier website to such a directory
tree. Or a zip file containing such a tree. I am still working on using this
functionality as a persistence mechanism. A few commands are already
implemented but not all. And I haven't figured out yet how to handle the
change history. One of the ideas I want to try out is to manage the
directory tree with a SCM like subversion.


On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Yanni Chiu <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote:

> I've been looking at Pier-FilesystemPersistence, and have a few questions.
>
> The version comments seem to indicate it is still a work in progress. What
> work remains to be done?
>
> It looks like the change history is not persisted. What's a good way to do
> that - individual xml files, or a change log?
>
> The usage scenario seems to be: start image, import kernel, save pages.
> Would it be possible to do a lazy read of the kernel, instead of reading it
> in entirely, at image start up?
>
> Not yet. I think something like this can be implemented but it will require
some changes to the Pier code. You need some kind of hook in the
childrenDecoration od a PRStructure.


> How does it compare with SIXX persistence done for VA Smalltalk?
>
> I don't know SIXX very well but I think it is a generic serialization
mechanism for Smalltalk objects to XML. You don't have control over the xml
schema with SIXX. And I'm not sure if it is possible with SIXX to store
groups of related Smalltalk object in separate files.

Pier-FilesystemPersistence uses the package Magritte-XMLBinding. WIth this
package you can control the way Magritte objects (like PRStructure) are
serialized to xml.

So it is still work in progress. If you want to have a look at it, you can
load it using the following Gofer script (I use a Pier2 image from the build
server of Lukas Renggli as a base image):

"XML Support"
Gofer new
	squeaksource: 'XMLSupport';
	package: 'XML-Parser';
	load.

"Load Filesystem"
Gofer new
	renggli: 'fs';
	package: 'Filesystem';
	load.
	
Gofer new
	renggli: 'magritte2addons';
	package: 'Magritte-XMLBinding';
	load.

Gofer new
	renggli: 'pier2addons';
	package: 'Pier-FilesystemPersistence';
	load.

Jan.



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From yanni@rogers.com Wed Nov 10 17:28:09 2010
From: Yanni Chiu <yanni@rogers.com>
To: smallwiki@list.inf.unibe.ch
Subject: Re: what is status of Pier-FilesystemPersistence
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 11:27:53 -0500
Message-ID: <ibeh6a$h8d$1@dough.gmane.org>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikL3p1w=ZSTrX9rCeVtiBMcy5xVvCwiGjLCo9Yv@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/11/10 4:07 AM, Jan van de Sandt wrote:
>
> So it is still work in progress. If you want to have a look at it, you
> can load it using the following Gofer script (I use a Pier2 image from
> the build server of Lukas Renggli as a base image):

Thanks for the background info. I've already loaded it, and saved a Pier 
kernel to disk, and restored it into a somewhat working site. I had to 
use an older version of XMLSupport to have the tests pass, because the 
latest XML code outputs some spaces in different positions than before, 
so some string compares failed.

I'm actual looking for a way to externalize the Pier kernel content, so 
that no image save needs to be done.

I will try to look into how SIXX is utilized to save Pier content.

-- 
Yanni


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From norbert@hartl.name Wed Nov 10 17:45:04 2010
From: Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name>
To: smallwiki@list.inf.unibe.ch
Subject: Re: what is status of Pier-FilesystemPersistence
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 17:45:01 +0100
Message-ID: <E9D2AC08-665D-4EC2-989C-A850CEEFF86F@hartl.name>
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On 10.11.2010, at 17:27, Yanni Chiu wrote:

> I will try to look into how SIXX is utilized to save Pier content.

It just works. Sixx writes out the complete object graph and can read it back=
. Besides encoding there is less surprise to expect.

Norbert



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From yanni@rogers.com Wed Nov 10 18:39:00 2010
From: Yanni Chiu <yanni@rogers.com>
To: smallwiki@list.inf.unibe.ch
Subject: Re: what is status of Pier-FilesystemPersistence
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:38:36 -0500
Message-ID: <ibelat$87r$1@dough.gmane.org>
In-Reply-To: <E9D2AC08-665D-4EC2-989C-A850CEEFF86F@hartl.name>
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On 10/11/10 11:45 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>
> On 10.11.2010, at 17:27, Yanni Chiu wrote:
>
>> I will try to look into how SIXX is utilized to save Pier content.
>
> It just works. Sixx writes out the complete object graph and can read
> it back. Besides encoding there is less surprise to expect.

That sounds like a good enough solution. As the change history grows, 
then start up time may become an issue, but that's down the road.


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