2014-11-07 15:17 GMT+01:00 jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>:
Thank you Alex,

This is what I am trying to do. Now just see the first example of agilevisualization.com, and explain me some things:

===
"the three following lines are ok for me"
v := RTView new.
shape := RTEllipse new size: 20; color: Color lightBlue.
shape := shape + RTLabel.

You forget that behind the RTEllipse, you also have a TREllipseShape, and that the shapes in the view are TR-shapes, and not RT-shapes, but that you add behaviors on the element, not on the shapes and ...

Well, overall, I find Roassal easy to get in when going in depth in it (i.e. extending a TRShape for example), but, paradoxally, it seems difficult to understand when you're just trying to do a visualisation with it. The lack of comments does not help, even if the structure is fairly clear.

And some of the stuff done in builders is really clever (automatic building of edges out of properties) but hard to grasp. Shaping a data model to Roassal can be a challenge.

Thierry
 

"ok, we are transforming a collection of objects into roassal elements"
es := shape elementsOn: (1 to: 20).
"and we add them to the view."
v addAll: es.
"my point here is that the visualization is not directly correlated to the objects. Objects are transformed. It means that if I add a new object, I also should add a new element and add it in the visualization. This is not trivial to understand. Why is it not done lazily ?"


"following lines create edges, it is ok"
RTEdgeBuilder new
view: v;
objects: (1 to: 20) from: [ :i | i // 2 ].

"We are applying a layout to a group of elements, not to a view. It means that all the expected behaviors are on the group of elements"
RTTreeLayout on: es.

"Here is strange. Why RTDraggable is applied to es and not to a shape ?"
es @ RTDraggable.
v

===
You know what I mean. Roassal has multiple key elements: objects, elements, view. And I do not see the interactions and builder.

I would like to know what is applied to each element.

Cheers,
Jannik


2014-11-07 10:48 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:

Hi Jannik,

You are raising an excellent point! Designing a documentation that find the right balance between what roassal offers, how people want to use it, and considering the previous knowledge people may have is hardly difficult.

Let me try:
  - There are three sources of documentation for Roassal2: the http://agilevisualization.com book, examples contains in Roassal2, and this mailing list. Chapters about Mondrian, Roassal1 are more than obsolete by now. 

 - You may want to try to work with the core of Roassal. Just focus on the Roassal2-Core then. Just look at the ‘Roassal Example’ in the example browser. Play a bit with it. Once you understand the basic functionalities of Roassal, you can read more about the builders (what I think you are referring to with ‘scripts’). Chapter II.1 in Agile Visualization.

An advice: do no try to build any complex Visualization in Roassal without having read the builder infrastructure. 

Cheers,
Alexandre

-- 
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Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:25 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Alex,

I am trying to use Roassal2. We can do amazing things with it. It is a powerful tool.

But, it lakes of documentation. I mean, there are lots of examples and we can reuse them.
My problem is that I cannot create something from scratch, just because I do not understand the workflow.

You know, I used Glamour and Mondrian, where the workflow were clear. In Roassal2, I am playing with blocks without understanding and without any idea what can be the result before executing it.

My problem is not about language or DSL or API.
My question is: do you have a document that explain how to think a Roassal script ?
It seems that to make something we can do it by multiple way. I just need one way to understand the workflow or creating visualization.

Thank you for your help.

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