"Several things:
- it is extensible: you can build your own debuggers with your own specific actions and views. The goal is to redefine debugging: the debugger did not change its shape essentially since decades and as a consequence we are still only looking at raw stacks when debugging. We want domain specific debuggers in which libraries come with their own debugger. Andrei will release a couple of such debuggers soon to give people an idea of what can be done (for PetitParser, Glamour, Announcements, and an SUnit specific enhancement).
- it is tiny: 500 loc. This is particularly important to make debuggers be tangible for mere mortals (like me). You can actually learn about a debugger by reading its code in your lunch break. It's highly instructive. In fact, if you want to change the way it looks, you should be able to play with it in that break, too :)."

Very interesting , thanks for sharing. I am very new with Pharo , looks like I have still tons to learn :) 

About Nautilus yes your colors seem more washed out than the ones used by standard Pharo for their instance of Nautilus. Dont know why. For example the packages scrollbar in Moose Nautilus is complete invisible while in Pharo Nautilus I can see it , barely , but I can. 

 But yes I generally dont like how Specs with its overuse of white that makes it hard for me to read code. I am also looking into implementing a dark theme for pharo. And my eyes have birghtness issues , sunglasses during summer is a must for me and I set my monitors always on lowest brightness. My eyes get tired easily. So take my opinion with a grain of salt , I just dislike non dark themes. 


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 1:37 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok apparently I was not as clear as intended to.

a) Sorry about the buttons I completely missed them, so apparently the functionality is there. I thought it was not there, My mistake.

No problem.

 
b) About the color white yes, I have an issue there, let me be more specific , I can barely see the scrollbars. I can't even find the scroll area since everything is white. 

This is the issue of the theme. I think this is observed only on certain screens: the gray becomes too white. I actually only saw this problem with my own eyes when connecting a crappy windows laptop to a projector. But, I am not sure this is the problem you are reporting. So just to check, now that we are at it, when you open Nautilus, do you see the scrollbar? How about the background of the Hierarchy button?

 
c) Yes source code in the right side makes no sense to me. You have the instance variables at the bottom and you waste so much space. why ? While source code on the right crammed and the window will need to be expanded for long lines. Also source code should be the center of the focus so it should be in the center , this where the eye will dwell the most during debugging. Instance variables should go at the right, source code at the bottom. 

I disagree that the code is the first thing to look at, but in any case I now made the code pane larger and the inspector smaller. The inspector at the bottom might appear white at first, but it is a fully interactive interface that can spawn other panes to the right.

 
d) Yes buttons could be bigger, I see no reason for them to be so small,

Indeed, I would also love to get scalable icons. I think they should come rather soon, but until then, the icons will remain like they are now. Is anyone interested in looking into importing SVG as icons and making them available as a library of icons? I know that Alex looked into that, but I think he is stuck. Alex?

 
e) I would not mind to have a menu too at least for showing the keyboard shortcuts. 

The shortcuts should be available as hints on the buttons when they exist.


Are there any new things that this debugger offers ?

Several things:
- it is extensible: you can build your own debuggers with your own specific actions and views. The goal is to redefine debugging: the debugger did not change its shape essentially since decades and as a consequence we are still only looking at raw stacks when debugging. We want domain specific debuggers in which libraries come with their own debugger. Andrei will release a couple of such debuggers soon to give people an idea of what can be done (for PetitParser, Glamour, Announcements, and an SUnit specific enhancement).
- it is tiny: 500 loc. This is particularly important to make debuggers be tangible for mere mortals (like me). You can actually learn about a debugger by reading its code in your lunch break. It's highly instructive. In fact, if you want to change the way it looks, you should be able to play with it in that break, too :).

Cheers,
Doru

 


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks :)

What do you mean with "it burns your eyes"? Do you refer to it being white?

In any case, I am happy that your main concerns seem to stem from less conceptual issues like small buttons and layout. The less prominent buttons do not worry me and they will likely not change because they are uniformly treated like that in all the Glamour browsers - and thus you get easily used to it.

The observation about the code is interesting, though. Should I understand that you find that having the code on the right hand side is less intuitive than having it at the bottom? Or is there something else you mean?

Cheers,
Doru




On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 10:48 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
I only briefly tried the Moose image for the shake of trying Roassal. I hope we talking about the same debugger. 

All this white burns my eyes, very hard to concentrate on. 

Source code is on the right side away from my central focus.

I could not find the proceed button , restart etc I see only a few buttons.

Overall I dont like the debugger , I cant say I find anything that is better than the one used by Pharo.  


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Diego Lont <diego.lont@delware.nl> wrote:
Hi,

I use the inspector a lot, and I am very happy with it. I am not sure I use the debugger, I do not think so.

Inspector is very productive.

No big issues

I like it that it gives me a context sensitive view, this really makes debugging faster.

Cheers,
Diego

On Dec 3, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi,

Since a while, the Moose 5.0 image comes with GTDebugger and GTInspector installed by default.

These tools are already useable, but there still is a long way to go. For this, we need feedback. So:
- did you use any of them?
- first impression in one-two words (e.g., strange, useless, frustrating, too white, funny, productive).
- what problems did you find?
- what did you like?

Cheers,
Doru

--

"Every thing has its own flow"
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