So do I. But, that is because we do not have proper tool support for sanitizing configurations.

Not only
When we introduce more and more packages we end up with a mess.
Seeing the issue when we have small and modular dependencies is a symptom, not a cause. We have to build proper analysis tools. I am actually upset at myself for not having done that already. I started with the support in the inspector for easier browsing, but we need more.

First, I would want to try to achieve to move all packages from ConfigurationOfMoose into Units and make ConfigurationOfMoose be an Assembly.

Normally we will be able to start for real doing that with Christophe. He has the dependencies expressed per package (so like that people will not show that they do not want one configuration per package :).

Then, I would like to reach the state in which one command to be able to trigger a full Moose release including nested configurations. Once we have that, we are in a manageable situation.
Indeed. I would love that for Pharo too.

Alex if you need CSV and JSON just load them.

It's not just Alex. I needed that quite regularly, too, but that does not mean anything either. I would rather want to look at the problem from a principle point of view.

Get a ready to load in one click set of packages.
Load them when you need them.
Build easy configuration for each of your project.
Keep the core of Moose nice and lean.

BTW we got rejected for a request for an engineer to work on improving the Metamodeling and merging with Platypus :(
Moose is a distribution for data analysis, and having support for basic data formats is a basic requirement for such a platform. There are other components that are less needed, such as Magritte (which is used only in Metanool and could be made simpler) or even the PharoImporter which is likely not used in many places.

I do agree that Moose can slim down, but keep this in mind: the lines of code of Moose remained basically constant since 4 years (around 180k) even though the functionality increased dramatically. That is a good sign, and I think we can do more to keep things slim but powerful.

For me when I see that Alex uts everything in a single package because he is afraid of having configurations
then I'm worried. Sorry alex but only blind people do not see that.
I do not like the example with loading manually one package (spy whaeter) to load Hapao. This is not good.
It does not scale. And I fixed a lot of wrong dependencies in the past.

The problem is that you prefer to let us manage dependency else.
I really do not like that.
I wrote a full chapter and it is working. To create a configuration it
takes less than 5 min.
So if you have a project just create a configuration and you get done.

I really think that going that road companies like synectique will simply
have to fork (in fact they probably already have) and we will all lose.

Synectique chooses to play an opaque game, which is Ok.
What are you talking about?
Guillaume was working with anne to produce a dotty like graph algo and we were planning to give it to roassal.
We did telescope and it is public.

I have no access either to the ways decisions are being made inside or even to the needs the company has.
Better metamodels and combination (remember the discussion nicolas and anne got on traits, inverse relationships at the meta model)
so this will not be fixed in one day.
And right now Synectique is focusing on clients and when possible pushing elements to the community.

And I won't spend much time guessing either.

You see when one guy is telling me that Group is not well done because it uses
too much nil or whatever and that I encourage the guy to fix and offer it to moose
then if this guy is coding in another "branch" then we all lose.

Unfortunately, I actually do not see. These kind of dialogues are held behind close doors and we should not guide an open-source project by wishes that are never expressed.




Le 27/2/15 23:18, Tudor Girba a écrit :
Yes, we should add those as well to the main Moose distribution.


On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel <> wrote:
… if we have XML, why not CSV and JSON? This is all wide-spread standard

Alexandre Bergel

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